Question about recoil

[Alfred Houde]

Okay, I have never been much of a rifle guy. Over my life I have owned a .22, .30-30, and 7x57mm. I briefly owned a Ruger No. 3 in .45-70 but promptly traded it.

Anyway, can anyone tell me the recoil comparison of a .375 H&H? I have been told it is no worse than 12 gauge rifled slugs. I have never been recoil sensitive, but I don't want a teeth rattler either. I never feel recoil in a hunting situation, but I'm sure this is going to be a beast to practice with.

Any experienced input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[John Campbell]

Mr. Houde:
Many things effect felt recoil. Bullet weight, powder charge, gun weight, personal physique etc. However, a factory 270 or 300 gr load for the .375 H&H is not a fun day at the range with most rifles. If you know about a Ruger No. 1 in .45-70, then you have an idea of a .375 H&H. I always shot my M-70 from the bench with a shot bag/sand bag between the gun and my shoulder.

And I was always glad to finish the session.

There is a reason why you can't find a "shot-out" barrel on .375s...

PS: You can load the .375 with low-velocity cast bullets and have a nice day.

[John Dallas]

I find that shooting off a bench is much worse than the same gun and shell in the field. Something about getting "Screwed into" the gun on the bench makes it worse IMHO
I had worked up a long range Pheasant load for Springer field trials which was pleasant enough to shoot in the field, but when I shot the same shells and gun off the bench to verify muzzle velocity, it nearly killed me

[William Davis]

Friend of mine and well known Parker shooter operates the rifle running target event at the Vintage cup. I help out. Watched a lot of big guns shoot the event. 16 shots, one charger two runners and a turning target 4 shots each string. We shoot the same targets at our gun club the machinery belongs to him.

At our club I don’t have any recoil problems shooting 30/30 Lever action or 30/06 Bolt action the 16 shots. Recoil about like a shotgun, fact the target is moving mount and shoot helps. Few of our members use 375 H&H and larger bolt actions before hunting trips. It’s great practice, they only shoot a few shots.

In the Vintage event, stalking class guns in the 30/06 recoil class shooters do fine. Stopping rifle class is were the big ones shoot, there is a power factor , I can’t quote it but full power 45/70 barely makes the factor. My observation the recoil is brutal. Some shoot them well one of the best a PGCA Member. To my eye all show the effect of recoil repeated entry with different guns.

My observation, never actually shooting the big calibers, best to practice with short sessions. You are not likely to run long stings on game, do need to get off a good first and follow up shot. Frankly if I had a need for a big stopping rifle it would be a 375 and practice with cast bullets following up with several short sessions full power before the trip. 375 can use store bought 38/55 cast bullets.

You are in Virginia , I can probably arrange for you to shoot our running targets at Montpelier.

William

[Ken Hill]

Mr. Houde,

You may find these two links helpful. The first tab provides rifle recoil numbers. The second tab provides a comparison with shotgun loads.

https://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

https://chuckhawks.com/compared_rifle_shotgun_recoil.html

I'm glad I stick to 1oz loads.

Ken

[Bill Zachow]

When central NY was shotgun only for deer, I used my 2 Browning auto 5s, one scoped, one with their deer barrel iron sights. Pre season shooting off a bench was tough as both guns weighed between 7 and 1/2 and 8 pounds and recoil was somewhat brutal. When the law changed to allow rifles, I switched to my pre 64 (1948) model 70 in 375 HH, using factory shells. I actually believe recoil was less with the 375, more of a heavy push rather than a slam from the brownings. I attribute this to the 375’s weight with scope, an Lyman All American 6 power. Combined, the gun weighs about 10 and 1/2 pounds. I no longer chase whitetails but when using the 375, I got about 30 at ranges between 100 and 350 yards.

[Brett Hoop]

Fear Not! The 375 H&H is said to be the Queen of the medium bores, and one of the reasons being it is very shoot able. Assuming you'll be shooting a scoped rifle, mount a scope with good eye relief, and get your LOP right before you sit down at a bench. And don't crawl the stock.

In fact don't make your first experience with the 375 from a bench, but off shooting sticks. If your not familiar with tri pod (3 wooden pole about 1" thick 5' long tied bound together about 6" from the top) the sticks and standing position, will allow you to move with the recoil better. Doesn't have to be a distant target say 25 yards and even bore sighting will have you on target. You aren't concerned with where you hit, but just to get a feel for the rifle.
Firm grip, keep the stock tight against your shoulder. You can use a pad or a folded towel if you feel the need. 375 rifles are as they come, typically fairly heavy most are close to 10 lbs. once you get a scope mounted. I would bet you will be pleasantly surprised to find the 375 H&H is not a recoil demon. Limit yourself to 5-10 rounds at first, once you get it sighted in and content with a load. Again get off the bench and back on sticks.

[Alfred Houde]

Thanks all for the input.

Bill Zachow:

Having grown up in Central New York, I miss deer hunting there. Spent a lot of time hunting in South Otselic. I get home to visit quite a bit, but hunting there is focused on ducks and partridge.

[Bill Anderson]

The smartest thing you can do is buy a Caldwell lead sled for the bench. When I got started into the 3 1/2" 12 gauge turkey load craze, patterning even a few shells was just plain torture. After I bought the "lead sled' shooting all day with any gauge or caliber is no problem. I added 100 lb to the sled, a chunk of steel from a junk yard, and smile now every time I pull the trigger. The lead sled is also ideal to hold and adjust any rifle, even my 22s and air rifle when sighting in a scope that I just mounted. I got over the 3 1/2" 12 gauge and only shoot SxSs now, but the lead sled is here to stay. But, be ready though, as all your friends and family will want to borrow it. You'll thank me after you buy one! :)

https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/caldwell-lead-sled-3-shooting-rest?a=2149715&_br_psugg_q=caldwell+lead+sled

Bill

[Todd Poer]

Mr. Houde,

You may find these two links helpful. The first tab provides rifle recoil numbers. The second tab provides a comparison with shotgun loads.

https://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

https://chuckhawks.com/compared_rifle_shotgun_recoil.html

I'm glad I stick to 1oz loads.

Ken

Thanks for posting the charts. I was talking a little about this in a post a few months ago. That shotgun to rifle comparison table is great. Mostly what I was discussing is which is worse recoil a 12 gauge BPS with 3.5 inch shells or a 10 gauge with 3.5 inch shells. The chart makes no reference to 12 Ga. 3.5 inch shell but I think recoil energy is pretty close if not higher than the 10 ga, probably due to mostly gun weight difference and some other factors for each.

All I know is that when trying to pattern 3.5 inch turkey loads, it was a whoopin and your chart demonstrates that beautifully with some numbers. I was guessing then that potentially loads I was using in a pump were maybe producing close to 65 lbs of energy and your getting all of it.

Anyway good stuff and thanks again for sharing that info. It looks like the .375 is comparable to 12 gauge using 3 inch shells. That should not be to awful.

[John Dallas]

Gun weight is important to the felt recoil. Given identical loads and stock dimensions, the heavier gun feel better. The total recoil is equal in both guns, but the heavier gun will feel more like a push than a stab

[Todd Poer]

I agree. I have a pair of dehaan sxs's that when I think I will be busting brush they are my go to guns. One is a 20 gauge the other a 28 gauge. The 20 gauge feels like just about every 20 gauge I have ever shot. That 28 gauge is much lighter but the recoil is much sharper. 20 gauge feels like a push 28 feels like a quick jab, put less power behind it.

As if 28 gauge shells are not expensive enough, would love to see a 28 gauge load with tungsten in some 10 or 12 size shot. That could be the ultimate small bore game getter gun, especially in that left barrel.

[Bill Murphy]

#10 and #12 will not penetrate a flannel shirt at 25 yards. It is not for the humane dispatch of any game bird.

[Dennis E. Jones]

I hunted elk with a 375 H&H for a number of years and have shot it quite a bit from the bench and can say that how you place yourself behind the rifle makes a difference. When shooting from a bench you need to be sitting straight up behind the rifle, not hunched over it. By sitting straight up you're body is better able to give with the recoil and it is not so punishing. Better yet the British have used standing benches to test large bore doubles for years.

I'm planning to build a standing rest that is a small bench that clamps to the vertical roof supports at our local range, that way I can have good support and still be able to shoot more rounds accurately when testing loads for my big bore rifles.

[John Dallas]

I had a chance to get a 4 hour tour at the H&H factory. The man who is their rifle regulator was not a work that dy. He was having major dental work done. I suspect it was from too much exposure to .500 Nitro Express

[Todd Poer]

#10 and #12 will not penetrate a flannel shirt at 25 yards. It is not for the humane dispatch of any game bird.

I am with you when it comes traditional thinking when it comes to lead shot, but I am learning. It is hard to wrap your mind around it. I was skeptical like you with classic thinking about lead shot at that size, would be the same as shooting coarse table salt. I am talking about a theoretical tungsten load in that size and not lead though, and not even certain they make tungsten that small, yet.

They are now using number #9 shot in tungsten to kill turkeys at 50+ yards and since tungsten has a density of 18 compared to leads 12, that is a 50% increase in mass. The ballistics performance of this stuff is just phenomenal at what it can achieve with such small pellets. It is definitely a shift in thinking.

Just guessing but would think pellet count in 28 gauge with #10 shot would be about the same as 12 gauge using 7.5 shot in a 2 3/4 shell.

[Bill Anderson]

I am with you when it comes traditional thinking when it comes to lead shot, but I am learning. It is hard to wrap your mind around it. I was skeptical like you with classic thinking about lead shot at that size, would be the same as shooting coarse table salt. I am talking about a theoretical tungsten load in that size and not lead though, and not even certain they make tungsten that small, yet.

They are now using number #9 shot in tungsten to kill turkeys at 50+ yards and since tungsten has a density of 18 compared to leads 12, that is a 50% increase in mass. The ballistics performance of this stuff is just phenomenal at what it can achieve with such small pellets. It is definitely a shift in thinking.

Just guessing but would think pellet count in 28 gauge with #10 shot would be about the same as 12 gauge using 7.5 shot in a 2 3/4 shell.

Here is some of the latest info on the new Federal Premium Heavyweight TSS (tungsten super shot)
... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ccWMOFEicQ

Bil

[bob weeman]

I built a standing bench rest years ago and used it quite heavily because it made a big difference back when I shot rifles up to 458. I had a 20 inch barreled Remington 700 C. A very light gun for the caliber. I also loaded up many reduced loads which is what I would mostly use if I were to play with the 375. Fun playing with the big boomers!

[William Davis]

I seldom shoot a rifle off a bench but when I do use a very high front rest and “muzzle and elbow hold. Put my left hand on the rest rifle in my hand same way as if shooting offhand. Buttplate in the shoulder pocket elbows on the bench. Wear my old small bore prone coat with padded elbows.

Worst prone or bench recoilier I shoot is a Trapdoor with full power 500 gr bullets. Lot of drop to the stock and a Cresent buttplate. It’s OK muzzle and elbow.

However rifles zero different off a hard rest. More they recoil more off the zero will be bench to offhand. Best zero same position you plan to use hunting or in competition. Shoot a group from position calculate center of impact and make adjustments from center of impact. When I Shot a lot of small bore prone we never tested or adjusted bench rest, always sling and coat prone just like in competition. Considerable difference in zeros, considerable meaning scoring rings on a very small bulls eye target. Inches not much.

If the shooting will be from a stand with a rest zero from a hard rest. Other wise center up a group. It’s more pattern than pinpoint. 375 I bet will shoot 3 or 4 minutes low offhand vs bench. 30/06 sporter it’s at least 2 moa different

William

[Mark Ray]

My big Game gun is a Model 70, Super Grade in .416 Rem. I had the original 24" pipe whacked to 21" with good set of express sights installed, and Talley quick release bases and rings, holding a 1X5X30MM Kahles. The express sights are regulated for 400 Grain Barnes Bonze solids and 400 Grain Sledghammers, the scope is set for a 300 grain Barnes X load to shoot 2" high at 100yds. I don't shoot the gun off of the bench often, but I can tell you this. The difference in 100 grains of metal is like the difference between a 243 and a 300 mag! When I practice with this gun I alternate between shooting sticks, offhand and bracing against a tree with the 400 gr. loads out to 100yds, to simulate dangerous game situations...I do the same with the lighter loads, at farther distances. but throw some prone position rounds out to 300yds...

I use the same method basically that William describes in his post of sighting in for center of group, as I'm a hunter, not a target shooter. I had a PH in Botswana one time that "made" me shoot from a rest at 100 yards to check zero...My rifle was almost three inches high, and an inch right...put three that would fit inside a quarter....he was digging around for something to change my scope, when I asked him to let me shoot offhand, shot four about as quick as I could, two cut the bullseye, 1 was an inch low and left, one was an inch high and right. He put his screwdriver back in the truck..

[Kevin McCormack]

#10 and #12 will not penetrate a flannel shirt at 25 yards. It is not for the humane dispatch of any game bird.

I don't know about that - I've killed an awful lot of Sora rail with #10s in my 28 gauges. Tell ya what - bring an old flannel shirt to Poolesville tomorrow and we'll see - I'll provide the vintage ammo.

[Mike Franzen]

I’m late to the party concerning the recoil of a 375 H&H Magnum. Have you seen the cartridge? Trust me, the first time you bust a cap you will know that ain’t no 12 gauge. I wouldn’t take my first shot from the bench either. Guys get used to shooting them and bigger calibers but it takes a dedication to develop the tolerance. Please have someone video your first shot and put it on you tube so we can watch it. Good luck.

[Bill Anderson]

One more time, "buy a Caldwell lead sled" for the bench and don't worry about the special techniques & tricks to shoot heavy recoil guns or staying up all night dreading your first trigger squeeze. :eek:

https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/caldwell-lead-sled-3-shooting-rest?a=2149715&_br_psugg_q=caldwell

or eBay ... https://www.ebay.com/itm/Caldwell-Lead-Sled-3-Adjustable-Recoil-Reducing-Rifle-Shooting-Rest-820310/302723770020?epid=2256045924&hash=item467bbe26a4:g:32AAAOSwskha6I-f

Bill

[Robin Lewis]

Look on ebay, lots of them for less $$$$

[Robert Bork]

I agree with everyone of these posts, there is much knowledge here. but this is a post about the 375 H & H, go ahead and get the gun and watch how you shoot it.. and like it was said there are lighter loads.. my preference is the 30-06 and 12 guage with lighter loads.. makes shooting more fun for me..

[Todd Poer]

Unless your built like Barney Fyffe then shooting that 375 should not be too bad as long as shooting a handful of shots. If you need to shoot more than that definitely get or borrow a lead sled to sight it in. Felt recoil is cumulative and just target shooting can cause a development of a flinch, then your just working against yourself. Most rifle I have ever shot is 30-06 with 180 grain and even just target shooting with that after about 7 or 8 shots, you really have to focus. Right now the only rifle I have is 270 WSM. It only kicks about like a 20 gauge but man that gun shoots flat.

BTW you definitely, for posterity, need to film you shooting it. Btw I am pretty certain that .375 will kick less than the nitro express gun seen below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Yj4IL0Q754

[Mike Poindexter]

FWIW, perceived recoil depends on the individual gun as well as the individual shooter and the cartridge ballistics. Some guns kick harder than others with the same cartridge. Weight, balance, stock shape, etc. I would shoot the gun in question before buying it. If that is not possible, buy it only if you want to flip it if you don't like the recoil. I shoot a .338 Win mag with 250's regularly for elk, but the first time I shot a friend's .375 H&H bolt action I handed it back and said "Thanks but no thanks."

[John Dallas]

I have to think that shooting off a Lead Sled will change the point of impact versus a conventional mount

[Bill Anderson]

I have to think that shooting off a Lead Sled will change the point of impact versus a conventional mount

From experience of many shots, no, it does not. Groups will most likely be tighter also, with no flinching/anticipation of the recoil that is coming.

Bill

[edgarspencer]

Many things effect felt recoil. Bullet weight, powder charge, gun weight, personal physique etc.

The less work the gun has to do to move you, the less the perceived recoil. If you are a linebacker, you're going to know something happened when you pulled the trigger.
A (230lb) trap shooting friend asked if he could shoot my 450-400x3 1/4". I advised him against it, and he soon learned why. I think I was about 160 lbs back then.

[wayne goerres]

I have one of those Edger. Also have a .416 Rigby and a 577x3". You get use to the recoil. Just don"t try to shoot a box of shells through it every time you shoot it. I have fired all of mine from a bench. No lead sled. None were much fun.

[Bill Murphy]

One of my shooting buddies, 83 years old, swears by the lead sled. However, he recently purchased a SAKO .375 and broke the stock at the wrist on his first shot on the lead sled. I have two .375s, a London Rigby and a first year Super Grade Model 70. If I use the lead sled, I will make sure there is some cushioning before I risk a $2000 stick of wood.

[Dennis E. Jones]

One of my shooting buddies, 83 years old, swears by the lead sled. However, he recently purchased a SAKO .375 and broke the stock at the wrist on his first shot on the lead sled. I have two .375s, a London Rigby and a first year Super Grade Model 70. If I use the lead sled, I will make sure there is some cushioning before I risk a $2000 stick of wood.


The very reason I don't own or use a lead sled. If I were to break the stock on one of my big bore doubles I'd likely turn the rest on myself.