New Member from Texas

[Bibb Gault]

Hi there guys,
My name is Bibb and yes, that is my real, given first name. I have gravitated here because like alot of members, I have inherited some Parker shotguns and parts from my dad who died three years ago this month. Some on this forum that are into custom knives might know of him. My dad, Clay Gault,from Austin,Texas, was a custom knife maker.{30+years Knife Makers Guild Member}

I have been looking through the Parker identification section and could use a little help with a stamping I cannot identify on a 28ga. GH{stamped "2"},0 frame,hammerless with special steel barrels. Records from this forum indicate it was made in 1902{114xxx} Here we go... directly BELOW the ser# on the watertable and perfectly centered is a "G". What does this "G" mean? Does this mean that the gun was repaired or modified at some point in its life? Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Also, If anyone can point me to a reputable Parker expert/appraiser in the San Antonio/Austin area that would be very appreciated as well.

Thanks,
Bibb T. Gault
San Antonio,Texas

[Chuck Bishop]

Bibb,

Welcome to the world of Parkers! The "G" under the watertable of the receiver just means it's a grade G as does the 2 above the serial number. I don't know why they double identified the grade that way.

You have a very valuable Parker if in good condition. We'd all like to see pictures of it. Take as many closeup in focus pictures of the watertable, receiver sides and bottom, the barrel flats, the stock, the muzzles, and the end of the rib where it terminates. Also if you would post the full serial number, we should be able to find it in the serialization book and tell you it's original configuration.

I don't know where Terrell Texas is in relation to where your at but Herschel Chaddick is a long time Parker collector and dealer. http://www.chadicksltd.com/site/amshots.htm

[Dean Romig]

Welcome Bibb (that's not such an unusual name to me - I had a friend in my early school years named Bibby Michulski)

I read something of your Dad's passing. These things are never easy but time softens it a bit.

Chuck gave you good information and all that I would add is that I sure would like to see pictures of your 28 ga. GH.

[Bibb Gault]

Thanks for the quick replies. The full ser# is 114514 I will get right on the photos and post some by this evening. I am positive that there was some work done to this gun about 25-30 years ago, specifically the barrels if I recall. I remember that it was sent to the UK because at that time my dad could not find anyone here in the US that he felt was qualified{in 28 ga.} to perform the work. The gun to my un Parker trained eyes appears to be very good condition for a firearm this old but I would bet that some time in its life it recieved some mild cleaning up as it simply looks too good for the age. The metal work appears to be in better condition than the stock. I have about 20 boxes of shells for this gun, although I know for a fact my dad never fired it after the work was performed in the UK. I will post the pics and listen to what you guys think. I also have 2 other Parkers{20 ga.} and a extra set of barrels that I think are 16 ga. These 2 guns probably fall into the "parts" classification as 1 is missing the stock and 1 has a barrel with a catastrophic failure{split wide open}

Thanks,
Bibb T. Gault
www.bibbgaultphoto.com

[Chuck Bishop]

OK, your GH should have 28" barrels with a capped pistol grip stock.

Bibb, I don't think you'll have any problems taking pictures of your Parker:rotf: You wouldn't believe how many pictures that we get that are too far away to see detail, too dark, and too out of focus. I especially like the picture of the lady on your web site:p

Don't assume that your other two Parkers are parts guns. Stocks and barrels can be found or made to make them whole again.

[Bibb Gault]

I posted some pics of my 28 GH in an album labeled "Bibb's 28 ga. GH" please give me your thoughts and I will post some better shots of the complete gun when I get some time maybe tomorrow.
Thanks,
Bibb T. Gault

[Chuck Bishop]

Bibb, this gun has had major work done to it. My comments are only meant to inform you of it's condition, not as a criticism.

The metal has been recase colored, the checkering on the forarm has been recut and there is no blank space where the checkering meets the release lever. The buttplate may be original and the wood at the widow's peak can be fixed. The major thing is that the barrels are fluid steel with the correct rib marking but they have been sleeved (I hope that is the correct term) and the chamber area of the barrels are damascus maybe from a C grade gun. Also strange is the notches for the firing pins seen on the extractor.

I'm sure those more knowledegable than me can add their comments.



I posted some pics of my 28 GH in an album labeled "Bibb's 28 ga. GH" please give me your thoughts and I will post some better shots of the complete gun when I get some time maybe tomorrow.
Thanks,
Bibb T. Gault

[Dave Suponski]

Bipp,Your gun 114514 is in the serialization book. It is listed as a Damascus Grade 2 28 gauge gun with 28" barrels gun,extractors and a pistol grip stock.Had the gun been kept original and not sleeved it would be worth more. Still a very nice gun that will clean up nicely.

[Bibb Gault]

Chuck or Dave,
Could you enlighten me on the sleeving of the barrels issue. My gut feeling is that at some point, my dad actually intended to use this gun and the Damascus barrels that were on the gun were not usable/unsafe, and it simply was not practicle if he actually wanted to shoot it to put new Damascus barrels on it. Did I make any sense? I also bet that at the time like alot of future collectable things, this was "just an old shotgun". I measured the barrels and and they have been cut as they are only about 25.5" long. I will post some pics of the other 2 parkers and parts when I get a chance.

Thanks,
Bibb

[Mike Wilkerson]

Welcome Bibb. Your web site is outstanding. I haven't seen your Parker pics yet but I bet they are outstanding.

Mike

[Dave Suponski]

Bibb,I would guess thats exactly what happened. They were damaged or someone told him that they were unsafe and the gun was send off to be sleeved/monoblocked.

[Dean Romig]

Bibb, it's sad that the barrels have been sleeved but most folks didn't know that Damascus barrels are perfectly safe to shoot with appropriate loads. A lot of Damascus barrels were discarded or sleeved back in the day. The ammunition companies and gun manufacturers told us so.... It was a conspiracy to get people to buy new guns and the new smokeless ammo.... too bad.

The cutouts in the extractor for the firing pins are not unusual for a 1902 (approx.) Parker.

The checkering pattern on the forend is that of a Grade-1 (VH) Parker and quite different from checkering pattern for the Grade-2 (GH) gun that you have.

The buttplate and screws are correct to the gun

We'd like to see pictures of the entire buttstock and detailed pictures of the checkering on the grip.

[Chuck Bishop]

Dean and Dave,

A couple of things lead me to believe the gun is a mixture of non original parts. Certainly the barrels are not original but the block is. The top rib looks like the word "Special" uses a different font type, I'm guessing that Damascus was filed out and Special inserted??? Bibb, can you check and see if you see a damascus pattern? It may be more visable looking at the side of the rib instead of the top that has the matting on it.

Also, the pistol grip cap and the buttplate are the wrong style for that period of gun manufacture.

Dean, you said that the notches seen on the ejector is not uncommon. The Parker Story shows a picture of an early hammerless gun with notches on the extractor but that's a gun made in 1890 with a s/n of 57K. They doubled their gun production by the time Bibb's gun was made. It would be easy to find out if the extractor is original if Bibb could examine the extractor by looking for the last 3 digits of the serial number. The 3 digits are probably on the backside face of the extractor

Interesting gun.

[Dean Romig]

You may be right about the extractor not being original to that gun but I had a GH 12 ga. ser. # 116XXX (don't remember the last 3) with the very same notches.... but then, I never checked for the three digits on the backside of mine.

[Bibb Gault]

Chuck,Dean and Dave.
Rear of extractor is stamped 514, so it must have been ordered that way. My pic is misleading because it was shot off axis. I believe the extractor had damage from hitting the firing pins at some point and that they are not "notched". The marks/notches are very un uniform. The rib sides do not show any Damascus pattern.

I am wondering if the other Parkers that labeled as "parts guns" were in fact purchased for that.

1st. gun... 20ga #85642 P grade,0 frame. 28" twist barrels with extractor. Gun is functional, but missing stock/butt and a piece of internal linkage for the safety. All numbers match. Can a stock and safety linkage be had for this gun so it can be made shot again without breaking the bank? Gun has minor surface rust, but the barrel bores look spotless.

2nd. gun... 20 ga Trojan. 178175, 28" Trojan Steel barrels,extractor . Gun is complete and functional except for catastrophic failure of the right barrel. How hard is it/costly to fit a set of used barrels at make this a user again?

Thanks, I notice this forum has some sort of system for thanking members. How does this work?
Bibb

[Larry Frey]

Bibb you simply hit the thumbs up icon in the lower right corner.

[Chuck Bishop]

Bibb,

You have many options, it all depends on whether or not you want to sell or keep your guns.

The 28ga gun. The gun is worth considerable money as is. The fact that the barrels have been sleeved and the rib marking altered is the biggest money loser versus had the barrels been original. If you plan on keeping it and shooting it as is, I would spend a little money and have a good stockmaker fix the wood, put on a correct buttplate either original or reproduction, refinish, and just shoot it. Prior to shooting it, I would have a qualified vintage gunsmith check it out first. If you want the barrels replaced, I believe Simmons Gun Specialities are starting to make 28ga new barrels with the correct rib inscription. Check other threads on this forum for more information. If you have Simmons make new barrels, it would increase the value of your gun over what it is now but less than if original. In other words if you replace the barrels you should be able to recoup your investment in the barrels and more. JMHO! Others may disagree.

The 20 ga PH It's hard to find an original 20 Parker stock and even if you do, there is no guarantee that a stockmaker could make it fit. Better to have a stockmaker make you a new stock to your dimensions. Figure on 2K-3K for this. The internal linkage should not be a problem finding parts or having a gunsmith make one.

The 20 ga Trojan: This may need some searching but may be possible to find. Go to the "Parker Parts and Shotgun Parts for Sale" forum and post a Wanted to Buy thread and see what happens. Also, check the gun auction sites. Sometimes they are for sale.

Good luck,

[Bibb Gault]

Chuck,Dean and Dave,

You guys have been super helpful and I really appreciate your expert opinions.

Since my 28ga has been kind of bastardized,should I save time, money,further depression{just joking} and not bother having an apprasal done on this gun? My original intent was to sell this gun and put the money towards another firearm that could be used without the worry associated with a "collectable firearm" like a 28ga. Parker. Would any of you guys care to make a guess at what someone will ACTUALLY PAY for a 28ga like this one that has been "jacked with"? If the devaluation is severe enough, I will just keep it and shoot it. I have 20-25 boxes of shells for this gun. I realize none of you have actually held and inspected this gun, but it would helpful if I could get some sort of price range that you think it might sell for so I have an idea as how to proceed. Also, would I have difficulty selling this 28ga at any price due to the mods that have been done?

Thanks,
Bibb

[Richard Flanders]

That gun has been worked over but looks absolutely ready for birds to me. I wouldn't let loose of it for A N Y amount of money, especially since it's a family gun. It looks perfectly fine to me; not original, but ready to hunt and as safe as a new gun. I think that if you take it out and shoot some clays with it you'll be in love instantly. If you hunt with it, you'll be totally smitten... totally... think hard before you decide to sell it.