Parker D grade 12 ga-No Saftey

[james nedela]

Would it hace been ordered this way, or modified. Can't se any evidence of having a saftey???

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2170/629648/24083822/413857828.jpg

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2170/629648/24083822/413857827.jpg

[Dean Romig]

That's original.

Usually the safety slot was filled and engraved over.






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[Chris Travinski]

Looks right to me. Does it have an English stock and long barrels?

[james nedela]

12 ga, #2 frame, 30", IM & Cyl bore. Damascus but blued. Skeleton butt plate. #77709, D Grade.

[Richard Flanders]

Live pigeon gun?

[james nedela]

I'm a newbie here, don't exactly know what I have. Will post some pictures to get some input. Thanks, Jim.

[james nedela]

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2170/629648/24083822/413857833.jpg

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2170/629648/24083822/413857834.jpg

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2170/629648/24083822/413857835.jpg

[james nedela]

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2170/629648/24083822/413857835.jpg

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2170/629648/24083822/413857837.jpg

[james nedela]

Barrels are blued, receiver has been polished as has the butt plate. Nice wood.

[Dean Romig]

Not an original D grade stock. Damascus barrels have been polished and blued.






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[james nedela]

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2170/629648/24083822/413857844.jpg
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2170/629648/24083822/413857846.jpg
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2170/629648/24083822/413857847.jpg

[Brian Dudley]

I may venture to guess that the stock itself may be original. Just improperly refinished, beining that the drop points were removed and the checkering pattern recut incorrectly. Everything else about it looks right.

Some guns that were ordered without a safety had the slots filled and engraved over. And some were made that way before the slots were cut in the tangs. Yours looks to be the later.

[Bill Murphy]

A PGCA letter may identify the original purchaser who may have been a known competition shooter.

[james nedela]

A PGCA letter may identify the original purchaser who may have been a known competition shooter.

Sent for a letter today-my first one for my Parker guns. I plan on doing more. Thanks for all your comments & suggestions, Jim.

[Tom Flanigan]

Jim...I'm betting that the stock is original although I don't know why the drop points were removed. The skeleton butt plate is the key. This looks to me like original Parker althogh the person who freshened the checkering pointed up all the diamonds. This is incorrect for a Parker.

It also looks like he removed the skeleton butt plate to freshen up the checkering. This is wrong also. I believe Parker checkered the butt with the plate on. I think that is fairly obvious when looking at untouched skeletal checkering.

All in all it looks like a great gun. I had a 34" DHE without safety and the engraving on the tang looked just like yours. I gave the 34" gun to a member of this board. I still miss that gun. I killed a ton of ducks pass shooting in Saskatechewan with it. I also used it for live ring birds and trap shooting.

[Tom Flanigan]

A good way to determine if the stock is original is to remove the trigger guard. Parker stamped the serial number here. Most people replacing stocks don't stamp the serial number like Parker did. If your gun has the serial numbers stamped, it is likely to be an original stock.

[Tom Flanigan]

One more thing. The small sliver of wood missing on the left screams original stock to me. Often the wood sticks to the metal on old guns. If the wood is not removed slowly and carefully, a spinter may break off. It looks like this happened to your gun.

I hope you remove the trigger guard and look for the serial number stamp. I'd like to bet Dean that 16 bore GH with the great engraving that he has. The best engraving I have ever seen on a GH. I'd sure like to have that gun.

Bet on Dean???

[Tom Flanigan]

I’ll indulge myself with one more comment. Obviously, the barrels are blued which is an incorrect finish for a Damascus gun. But what really gets to me is to see the engraving on the end of the barrels polished over. There is no need to do this.

L. C. Smith stamped their barrels with the grade and it hurts my eyes when I see this stamping polished over. A competent restorer would never polish over and diminish barrel markings. Some restorers polish over the engraving on the end of the barrels and then recut it. This is fine, but leaving this small area unpolished is the better option, in my opinion.

Another thing that gets to me is to see barrels refinished to deep black on fluid steel Parker guns. Too many iterations of rust, boil card. Original Parker bluing shows a distinctive blue color, not deep black.

Also, some restorers polish barrels to a higher sheen than original. I lightly polish no finer than 240 on the lower grade parkers and try to keep the striking marks intact whenever possible, especially on Trojans. The goal should always be to mimic original finishes.

[Dean Romig]

That polishing of the breech end of the barrels is exactly why I mentioned it in my earlier post. I completely agree with your other points as well Tom.





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[james nedela]

A good way to determine if the stock is original is to remove the trigger guard. Parker stamped the serial number here. Most people replacing stocks don't stamp the serial number like Parker did. If your gun has the serial numbers stamped, it is likely to be an original stock.

I took the trigger guard off-serial number is there & matches the gun. Makes the stock original to the gun, right?

[Tom Flanigan]

I would say that there is a 99.9% probability that the stock is original. I'd bet money on it.

[Brian Dudley]

I took the trigger guard off-serial number is there & matches the gun. Makes the stock original to the gun, right?



Not necessarily, but it does strongly support it.

[Tom Flanigan]

My 99.9% figure is not based solely on the serial number under the trigger guard but it seals the deal for me. The small chip on the left, the fitting of the skeleton butt plate and the overall look of the stock. Solid evidence for originality is there, in my opinion.

[james nedela]

My 99.9% figure is not based solely on the serial number under the trigger guard but it seals the deal for me. The small chip on the left, the fitting of the skeleton butt plate and the overall look of the stock. Solid evidence for originality is there, in my opinion.

That's good enough for me too, Tom. Of course it's my gun, I might be a little biased, maybe .1%?

[Tom Flanigan]

Enjoy your gun and rest in the knowledge that it is all Parker. I hate to make a categorical statement, but I think I am justified in this case even without having the gun in my hands.

If you want to put a little money into it, you could have the barrels done right and have the barrel end engraving picked up. If it was me, I would also have the skeleton butt plate engraving re-cut. It looks like that was polished off.

My theory of why the drop points were removed.......the refinisher might have tried to sand around them and maybe took off too much on the sides so both sides no longer matched. He probably kept trying to correct the problem and damaged them to the point where it made sense just to totally remove them. A pure guess, but its the only thing that makes sense to me. I don't think anyone with half of a brain would remove them on purpose unless there was a reason to.

The person who did the refinish was not competent, in my opinion. But, except for the drop points, he did not do anything that can't be easily fixed, including the checkering. If it was my gun I would go for it. I can fix the issues myself but even if I couldn't, the gun is worth making things completely right. That's a damn nice gun.

[james nedela]

Thanks, Tom, I am thinking along those same lines. I really like this gun, but just can't get my head around the metal work that was done to it. I think the bluing is rust blue, but don't know what a restoration would cost. Hate to put into it more than it's worth. Jim.

[Tom Flanigan]

It's worth a lot more than you would have to put into it. I would start by focusing on the barrels and check the prices for doing the barrels right. If you do this, be careful who does the work. Folks here can steer you in the right direction. It's not that big a deal to have them done right.

Or you can just leave it like it is. It's still a fine gun even if the refinishing deviates a bit from Parker methods. Just shoot it, enjoy it and don't worry about it. If you decide to correct the finishing errors, that's fine too. I like your gun!

[Dean Romig]

Geoffroy Gournet would be my choice to do any engraving work.





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[james nedela]

Well, I got the letter on this gun today. Gun was shipped in March of 1894. Returned to Parker in June of 1905, by R.H. Mitchell, Hoisington, Ks. Interesting instructions for alterations to be done by Parker. "Make shoot close, clean & rebrown barrels, Bend stock 2 3/8", if possible, & remove saftey & plug hole". Make shoot close & bend stock 2 3/8"--what the heck was he asking for? Can any one explain this to me? Thanks, Jim.

[Gary Laudermilch]

My guess is the guy that sent it back is the pigeon shooter. He wanted the chokes tightened up and the stock raised to 2-3/8 drop at heel. He also wanted to get rid of the safety. In short, make it a live bird gun.

[Rick Losey]

shoot close was a term for tight choking

i expect what he actually wanted was the drop bent to 2 3/8 at heel - bending that as a movement is impracticable - and most likely impossible