Tru oil versus Timberlux

[David Penland]

For those who have used both Tru oil and Timberlux, which do you think is best for gunstock finish? Thanks for your input.

[Steve Huffman]

I hate Tru oil and never used Timberlux But I think others have and like it they will chime in .

[chris dawe]

Tru oil needs to be thinned ,it makes a good tough finish - but the thickness IMO can make it troublesome to apply .

I have no experience with Timberlux ,but I've heard good things .
Permalyn is another great product .

There are as many opinions over finish as we have Arse****s,but I have always personally felt the method of application is most important

[Eric Eis]

I too have heard great things about Timberlux, (I don't like Tru Oil) and I was going to order some but he charges $15 for shipping one jar ! That's a little excessive.

[Brian Dudley]

Tru-oil is a very good versitle finish that can be used to acheive a varitey of types of finishes.
For someone with not much experience and working on general projects, they cant go wrong with it.

Timberluxe is good as well, and is a lot better at getting some color into the wood since it has some color to it itself. It is a better finish for getting the right look on older guns. Not that it is hard to work with or anything, but it is different than tru-oil for sure. It definately has a longer dry time or ahoukd i say cure time.

[Chuck Bishop]

I don't like True Oil and haven't tried Timberlux. I like Pro Custom Oil and I know many stockmakers that like it too.

[Mike McKinney]

Brian Board maker of Timberluxe is usually at the Southern. Might check to see and buy the product there or have someone to pick it up. A great product.

[Eric Eis]

If he's at the Southern I'll pick up a jar as I want to try the product.

[Fred Lauer]

I've used Tru Oil for 50 years and am able to get an excellent smooth finish with it every time. I thin it, mix stain with it when I need too and do a sanded in finish that takes about a week to complete. It ain't for a man in a hurry. I've never used Timberlux but I have copied the shape of their duck calls which I think are very attractive especially with some hand checkering added to the barrel.

[Mark Beasland]

Like anyone that repairs or restores stocks I was always looking for something better and I tried a pile of finishes over the years. I am a big fan of TL. I use it for complete refinish jobs, It blends well with most existing finishes for repairs and brightens up dry finishes. It works best in low humidity and applied sparingly.

Like my mentor has said many times "this may not be the only way to do this or the best but is the way I do it.

[Bill Graham]

Never had any problem with TruOil. May try something else sometime, but don't have any real compelling reason to do so.

[Jack Cronkhite]

I have used Tru Oil since the late 70’s. I am always pleased with the end result. The first one I did was my Dad’s VH. I used it a lot in the field and the finish remains in very good condition to this day. Cheers Jack

[Bill Graham]

The gentleman who makes Timberlux was kind enough to bless me with some samples at the Southern yesterday. Looking forward to trying it out for the first time. That, and finding a #1 frame hammergun I could afford helped make it a great day!

[Dave Tercek]

I've used True Oil for 20 years on personal projects, it's been OK. My last project was a C grade Fox. I decided to try Timberlux stain and finish. Any future project will be done with Timberlux. Not only is it easy to use, but it looks great and is very durable. The Fox has been out in rain and snow and has been pushed though grouse cover time and time again. The finish looks like it was done yesterday.
Dave

[Eric Eis]

I missed Brian from Timberlux as I wanted to pickup a jar from him (I know I can order a jar but $15 for shipping is a little steep.) but missed him, tried to find him on Sat and Sunday (no cell service....) and when I did reach him he had already left. Really wanted to try the product.

[Brian Dudley]

A winchester 94 deluxe refinished with Timberluxe. Also used their stain with the finish. You can't quite get that look with tru-oil.

62639

[Tom Flanigan]

I just received a bottle of TimberLux. This will be my first time using it. I bought it because of all the good things that were said about it. One of the reasons I liked TruOil is that, after filling the pores and coloring the stock if necessary, I can rub it into the stock and then wipe most of it off with a rag. This builds up the finish a tiny bit at a time. No worries about dust or other contaminents getting into the finish or uneveness that must be taken down. Some finishes are too tacky to do my process. I hope TimberLux isn't.

[Bill Holcombe]

Laurel mountain forge permalyn is great. The sealer is even better. Waterlox also guves nice finish

[Tom Flanigan]

No doubt that you got good results with Permalyn products. I stayed away from Permalyn because I believed that they used synthetic polymers. I could be wrong. I use thinned tung oil for the filler. I soak, let dry, soak again till the stock will take no more tung oil. Then I wet sand it with the grain using tung oil and spread the sawdust mud cross grain with my fingers. I keep repeating the process till all pores are filled level. Then I hand rub in Tru-Oil and wipe it off with a cotton cloth. I keep doing this till I get the depth of finish I require. It takes a while to finish or refresh a stock but it’s worth the effort.

I’ve heard negative comments on this site about George Brothers Lin-Speed. I’ve used that also and the results are similar to Tru-Oil. It does tend to produce a shiner finish, but this can be easily adjusted. I am going to try Timber-lux for the heck of it. I’ll start a stock with it this week.

There are many methods and products which provide an appropriate finish for Parkers.

[Bill Holcombe]

A winchester 94 deluxe refinished with Timberluxe. Also used their stain with the finish. You can't quite get that look with tru-oil.

62639

Thats a gorgeous finish Brian! Did you use permalyn to seal it or Timberlux? I recall we had a discussion on here at one point where you said you were a big fan of permalyn's sealer. Just curious what you used. Might give timberlux a try on that Trojan I have coming my way.

[Brian Dudley]

I think that was strictly timberluxe. But i cannot remember. I have been using teak oil mixed with alkenet root a lot lately as a sealer.

[Tom Flanigan]

That's a good question. I'll be interested in what Brian has to say. I've always used off the shelf tung oil to seal the stock using the mud method until all the pores are filled. Then I finish up with Timberlux now. In the past I used TruOil.

[Tom Flanigan]

That’s interesting. I’ve always used the alkenet stain after all the pores are filled and let it sit for at least 24 hours. But I am going to try Brian’s method with my next stock. Great tip. I made up a batch of alkenet root stain years ago and I still have a lot left. I boil the alkenet roots in linseed oil and then leave the roots in the jar for storage.

I now use Timberluxe but I don’t seal the stock with it. It’s too expensive and I like off the shelf tung oil for sealing since it works well and is inexpensive. I go through a lot of tung oil filling the stock using the mud method.

[Ronald Moore]

where can you find alkenet root, I would like to mix my own stain.

Ron Moore

[G. Wells]

I bought some on EBay.

[Tom Flanigan]

I haven't bought it in years but I think I got it from somwhere in England. But you should be able to find it on the internet. I used the actual roots and not the powder that is sometimes sold. I filled a coffee can half full of the root and then filled the can level with linseed oil. If I was to do it again, I would use tung oil for the faster drying time. I boiled the root in oil but you have to be very careful to take it off the stove at the first sign of a boil. If left, it will flow over and make a hell of a mess.

[Bill Holcombe]

Ordered some last night to try on the Trojan I have coming my way. Got a call from Brian Board this morning just to verify the humidity levels I would be dealing with and to give me some advice on the application of the finish and the stain. Had a pleasant talk with him afterwards regarding when he worked on Parkers for Herschell Chaddick and he told me about an AH grade he refinished about 16 months ago. Seems like a pleasant fellow.

[Dean Romig]

Brian is a very pleasant fellow and he knows his stuff! What an artist he is in his craft!

You should see his duck calls with AA Parker checkering.





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[Bill Holcombe]

He's got some nice ones on his website, but I don't think my extremely limited duck shooting warrants that quality of a duck call :)

[Tom Goldasich]

I have some Winchester Red Oil on order. How much different is it to work with than the others? Can I build up the top coat with Tu-oil?

[Brian Dudley]

I have not used it, but all I can say is that the shade of winchester red is such that it really does not look right on anything but a winchester.

[Tom Goldasich]

Thanks.

I'm one of those guys who loves warm walnut. The "green" steamed look is not to my liking. However, I'm going to experiment so that it just has that "kiss of red" that doesn't look wrong. My 1973 rifle will be my guide.

I'm hoping the compatibility with Tru-oil will be fine.

[Bruce Day]

TruOil finishes can cloud if the gun is in the rain and the stock gets wet. Timberluxe doesn’t .

[Tom Flanigan]

That's an interesting point Bruce. I don't have enough experience with Timberluxe to form an opinion. But I'll tuck that thought into the back of my mind and will observe. Thanks for mentioning that. I hadn't heard that before.

[Brian Dudley]

Tru-oil does not cloud in the rain.

[Tom Goldasich]

TruOil finishes can cloud if the gun is in the rain and the stock gets wet. Timberluxe doesn’t .

Good to know, but I don't hunt anymore. My guns rarely see daylight, let alone rain.

[Mike Hunter]

I looked at Timberlux a few years ago, after reading the MSDS, I realized that it was a mixture of linseed oil, sunflower oil, naphtha (thinner) and some metallic driers.

I don't know about sunflower oil for protecting wood, but linseed oil is not great.

I've tried a lot of finishes in my shop, the one that I always go back to is Tru-Oil. depending on how I apply it, and rub it out, I can replicate just about any finish from a high gloss "piano finish" to a hand rubbed oil finish.

And no it doesn't cloud.

[Tom Flanigan]

I looked at Timberlux a few years ago, after reading the MSDS, I realized that it was a mixture of linseed oil, sunflower oil, naphtha (thinner) and some metallic driers.

I don't know about sunflower oil for protecting wood, but linseed oil is not great.

I've tried a lot of finishes in my shop, the one that I always go back to is Tru-Oil. depending on how I apply it, and rub it out, I can replicate just about any finish from a high gloss "piano finish" to a hand rubbed oil finish.

And no it doesn't cloud.

I've come to the same conclusion. But it had nothing to do with durability. I just could not tell much or any difference in the finish of guns using Timberluxe vs. Tru-Oil. Timberluxe is a lot more expensive and I would use it if I could see a meaningful difference. But I've gone back to Tru-Oil

[Mark Ray]

TruOil finishes can cloud if the gun is in the rain and the stock gets wet. Timberluxe doesn’t .

I have had quite a few instances of TruOil stocks clouding up when wet. Particularly those that were finished to an extremely high gloss. I have noticed that the cloudy areas usually coincide with the wet stock being in contact with something warm, a hand, shoulder car seat etc. Almost without exception, after drying thoroughly, and with a little buffing, the clouding disappeared. It may have somthing to do with the generally high temps down here in South Texas.

[Brian Dudley]

I've come to the same conclusion. But it had nothing to do with durability. I just could not tell much or any difference in the finish of guns using Timberluxe vs. Tru-Oil. Timberluxe is a lot more expensive and I would use it if I could see a meaningful difference. But I've gone back to Tru-Oil



Timberluxe gives much more depth and color to a stock finish than tru-oil. Therein lies the major difference.

[Eric Eis]

Tru oil gives much more depth and color to a stock finish than tru-oil. Therein lies the major difference.

Ok I'm confused, "Tru oil and tru-oil." Is one Timberlux ?

[Brian Dudley]

Yeah... you heard me.

I meant tumberluxe gives more depth and color than tru-oil. I have corrected my original post.

[Tom Flanigan]

No argument here. You finish a lot more stocks than I do. I just don't see much difference on the guns I have finished with Timberluxe. I stain most of my stocks with alkanet root so the color benefit of Timberluxe is not important to me.

[Brian Dudley]

True. I have been using Teak oil sealer with alkenes root for my sealer and filling coats a lot lately. It makes whatever I use for the top coat go a lot farther.

[Mike Hunter]

Years ago, I wrote an article for the Winchester Collector Magazine on wood finishes, off the top of my head (without pulling up my notes), a few key points:

The three most common plant oils which set (dry) on their own are linseed, walnut and tung; only drying oils form a cohesive, hard film when used as a wood finish.

Linseed oil has a few issues. When you first wipe linseed on a stock, the wood really pops… it’s gorgeous. But… linseed oil continues to oxidize, and darkens with age. I have seen some linseed finishes that were so dark that they were almost black.

As a wood protectant, linseed oil is not very good, it easily allows moisture and moisture vapor to penetrate.

Finally, it’s very slow drying and need the addition of metallic dryers.

The primary ingredients in Timberlux seem to be: Naphtha (thinner), equal amounts of linseed and sunflower oils and a smidgen of metallic driers. As noted above, linseed oil is not a great wood protector, and I have no idea on the protective qualities of sunflower oil as nobody recommend it for anything more than “food safe” applications such as cutting boards and salad bowls. And only if you cannot use walnut oil due to nut allergies.

Tru-Oil contains solvent, a proprietary modified oil and only about 13% linseed oil.

Respectfully

Mike

[Mike McKinney]

I use walnut oil to finish most of my salad and utility bowls. My understanding is that the two biggest benefits in that application is that it doesn’t.t turn rancid and that it slowly drys, both of these qualities are desirable for what I do. I never have known of walnut oil to be used as a finish for atheistic pieces. There are some blends that could possibly be alright. I appreciate the facts Mr. Hunter talked about.

[Dean Romig]

The primary ingredients in Timberlux seem to be: Naphtha (thinner), equal amounts of linseed and sunflower oils and a smidgen of metallic driers. As noted above, linseed oil is not a great wood protector, and I have no idea on the protective qualities of sunflower oil as nobody recommend it for anything more than “food safe” applications such as cutting boards and salad bowls.

Mr. Board assures me that he does not add sunflower oil to his Timberluxe product. If someone has read that it contains sunflower oil it must have been listed on a MSDS sheet as an ingredient in one of the products that make up Timberluxe. Certainly if there was anything in a product he uses in Timberluxe that was at all detrimental in any way, he wouldn't be using it.





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[Mike Hunter]

A couple of years ago, I was asked to do an article on Winchester wood finishes for the Winchester Collector magazine.

Just as Ford and General Motors don’t make their own paint, Winchester didn’t make its own satins & finishes, but instead purchased them from the XXX Company, a relationship that continued until the late 70s/early 80s.

Somewhere during my research, I was given a copy of Winchester’s wood finishing process circa 1903. I’m not talking pencil scribbling in a notebook, but step by step process laid out on original Winchester stationary: “two coats of XXX Company red brown #2 stain, allow to dry for a day, burnish, apply 1 coat of XXX Company #1 clear sealer”…etc. Unfortunately The XXX Company has been bought/sold several times so the original company no longer exists and the exact formulations are lost to time or the dumpster.

Around the same timeframe, I was approached by someone peddling Timberlux finishes, they told me they had the original formulation that Winchester used, which really got my attention. Then they followed up with some story about getting the recipe from a 90 year old former Winchester employee who used to make the finish at the Winchester factory. Ummm Ok… Great Story…. That’s about it.

As to Timberlux ingredients, the Material Data Safety Sheet (MSDS) is a legal document required by OSHA. Timberlux listed Naphtha (thinner), linseed/sunflower oils and metallic driers in their MSDS. Weather Mr. Board adds sunflower oil to the product or not is irrelevant, whoever makes it for him puts sunflower oil in it.

Now, my intent is not to disparage Timberlux or their products. I have never used their products so have no firsthand knowledge as to applicability. I use what works for me, and the finish that I need to achieve. Just stating what the list of ingredients is for Timberlux which is in the public domain

[Dean Romig]

I appreciate that Mr. Hunter, but I'm still perplexed as to the concentration on the the inclusion of sunflower seed oil in the Timberluxe mixture.... why is anyone focusing on that ingredient? What's the big deal and why should we care? The Timberluxe product is in most ways superior to many other wood finishes when we want to attain a factory-like finish?

Best, Dean





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[Mike Hunter]

Dean

In your second to last post, you seem to focus on the sunflower oil. In my earlier posts, I listed the published ingredients of Timberlux; I also did the same for Tru-Oil.

I truly don’t know the benefits or drawbacks to using sunflower oil except that it’s food safe, and should be great for cutting boards. That’s about all I can find on sunflower oil as a wood finish/protectant. Not a whole lot of folks using it for exterior/long term applications.

Again, linseed oil, while very popular as a wood finish, has issues; mostly that it does not truly protect wood from moisture, moisture vaper easily penetrates linseed oil.

While doing my research, I quickly determined that I would never know the make-up of Winchester’s wood finishes. So I focused on what materials they had at the time and what materials were used in other industries.

As a result, I focused on musical instruments; in many ways they have the same challenges: change in moisture content can change the note of a fine violin, sweat from hands, different climates etc. I contacted a noted luthier, and had a good hour long conversation with him. Seems that owners of Stradivarius violins are extremely picky about period finish.

I narrowed the primary ingredient list down to 3 or 4, with shellac based being the most common. There was not much to choose from pre-1920

Respectfully

Mike

[Dean Romig]

Way back in this thread I think it was Brian Dudley who questioned sunflower oil as an ingredient in Timberluxe. Not that there was something wrong with it but that it was simply not an ingredient used by Parker Brothers or other gunmakers of the period.
I was simply defending its use.
We know that oils derived from petroleum are harmful to wood, eventually causing the wood fibers to break down and rot. We also know that oils derived from animal fat become rancid and the resulting acids are also harmful to wood fibers. This leaves vegetable oils which, while some are more protective to the wood than others, do no harm to wood.
We can conclude that sunflower oil is a vegetable oil and will provide some protection to wood.





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[Eric Eis]

Mike I missed your article, which issue was it in?

[Bill Holcombe]

I can remember reading in one of my father-in-laws wood working magazines about combining sunflower oil with soy results in a very hard protective finish for wood.

I do not know if the ingredients in timberlux result in the same, but I have had good results from it.

[Mike Hunter]

Opening Day, Winchester Collector Fall 15... if you're a WACA member you can view online.