Tungsten Super Shot will eliminate the need for a big bore

[Jerry Harlow]

I finally had the chance to pattern and test my Tungsten Super Shot hand loads today. There is no doubt that any double I have in 12 down to 20 will kill a turkey dead at 40 plus yards with these number 9s.

The first gun I tried was my late Uncle’s 20 gauge Franchi 48-AL. Two weeks ago I found a vent rib barrel for the gun with a screw in full choke (.030) to replace my uncle’s I.C. plain barrel with which he killed hundreds of quail. The pattern was fantastic at forty yards with the full choke.

I next tried the same one ounce #9 loads in my most tightly choked 20 double, a Fox Sterlingworth with .034 in the left barrel. Although at forty yards the pattern was to the right of the target, there were more than enough shot in the turkey to kill him dead.

Next I tried my 1 ¼ ounce 12 gauge loads in my most tightly choked Parker, a VHE with .040 in the left barrel. Again, no turkey could live through the #9s. The Tungsten 9s have the same penetration at 70 yards as lead 9s do at 15 yards, and the same penetration as number 5s at 57 yards according to the chart. This gun also patterned to the right, and I had the guns on target in a Caldwell Lead-Sled. These pure tungsten pellets not only went through heavy paper and two thick layers of carpet runner. The pellets left their imprints in 1/16 inch solid steel. I made a trap to recover my shot (pictured) and of the three shells with 3 ¼ ounces of shot fired, I recovered 95% of it. Undamaged I might add. Very important at $3 an ounce. I hope to kill one spring gobbler with my late Uncle’s gun, one with the 12 VHE, and lastly with a 20 either in Fox or Parker. I am sure these pellets will kill out to 50 yards, but I can’t see that far anymore to know I'm on a turkey's head with a simple metal bead.

The last photo is what 1 ounce of #9s from a 20 gauge will do at 40 yards.

Finally there is no worry about damage to vintage barrels as in the 20s the shot is inside a 28 gauge shot cup inside a 20 gauge wad, and the 12s have a mylar wrap inside the 12 gauge shot cup.

[Eric Eis]

Jerry, I haven't heard of this shot (TM tungsten yes) but what is Super Shot Tungsten and where do you get it?

[Jerry Harlow]

Eric,

Here is the web site. Hal on the site sells it. He has multiple loads that he has developed. But he asks that when you buy from him and he shares the loads with you, that you don't share with anyone and I respect that. A pound costs $47 and #9s are all you need for turkeys and #7s for geese. The penetration is remarkable, as I could not believe the #9 would leave its imprint in steel at 40 yards. My only complaint is that no load uses common wads and they are available at Ballistic Products. But I doubt I'll ever shoot all 250 wads in my lifetime, and I had to buy both 20s and 12s.

They are killing turkeys with 28s and .410s at 40 yards.

https://www.tungstensupershots.com/

Here is a chart that shows 1.5 inch penetration with 9s into gelatin at 70 yards the same as lead 9s at 15 yards!

I see the shot is now $53/pound. Tariffs taking effect. I guess I'll have to operate on any turkey I kill to recover the shot from him.

http://www.trapshooters.com/threads/the-difference-in-shot-ballistics-with-different-shot-densities.267784/

There are examples of the shot traps on there. Mine cost me $35 and scrap wood from a concrete project, and yesterday with three shots I recovered $9 worth of shot. Unless you don't mind throwing $3 an ounce away to test, the trap should be made before shooting these. That's what took me the longest, waiting to build the trap. They do caution that this stuff will kill so far that one has to be careful with your backdrop. I had flyers that went around the trap I am sure. Like a dummy, I made a holder for a roll of construction paper like one buys at Lowes and had it above the trap so I could roll it down and staple over the trap. Well the first shot filled it with holes, and it appears many layers deep into the roll. Powerful stuff.

[Phillip Carr]

It looks like Federal loads these but looking on line they are all sold out where ever I. Checked. Hand loading may be the only way to go at this point in time.

[charlie cleveland]

j a this sounds like a turkey hunters dream...maybe the price will drop as the shot becomes more known...i m ready for you to take a big gobbler with it....my hunting has been slow only been 1 time been to cold in the mornings for me....charlie

[Frank Cronin]

When you pattern the gun with lead, does it also pattern to the right or just the Tungsten Super loads? If so, any idea why?

[allan.mclane]

It looks like it's made in China, using metal injection moulding.... no wonder it's so co$tly.

http://www.globaltungstens.com/tungsten-alloy/tungsten-shot.php

[Jerry Harlow]

When you pattern the gun with lead, does it also pattern to the right or just the Tungsten Super loads? If so, any idea why?

I believe one would find the barrels regulated to a shorter distance. I am guessing they would be right on at 35 yards. I have a L.C. Smith that would win any shooting match one took it to with the left barrel. But at the 30 yard turkey shoot distance one had to shoot at the top right hand corner of the target to center the pattern. It would be right on at 40 yards.

The extra full chokes in the 12 VHE and 20 SW I believe in this case are working against me. But that is why one patterns guns, to see where they shoot. Of course I could also have pulled to the right. But I don't think so. I squeezed the triggers like a rifle shot from the Lead Sled.

With the Franchi and a single barrel with a rib parallel to the center of the bore, the pattern was dead center.

[Todd Poer]

Thanks for the update and followup Jerry. Was really interested in what you found out. I am blown away by the thought of using 9 shot on a tough old bird at 50+ yards. Good luck with the turkey season.

[Jerry Harlow]

My cousin's grandson came up to target his 12 gauge 3.5 inch. He shot the new Winchester XRs, 1 3/4 ounce number 5s at 40 yards. His shot against the back steel plate of my shot trap did not even make a mark in the steel. The shot flattened out and was there on the ground. The tungsten 9s dinged the steel quite deep.

[charlie cleveland]

look how much farther one can take a big bore and kill a turkey....i gotta get me some of this shot...charlie

[Jerry Harlow]

look how much farther one can take a big bore and kill a turkey....i gotta get me some of this shot...charlie

Charlie,

They are selling the fully loaded 2 1/2 ounce loads for $12 a shell ($59 for a box of 5 without shipping).

https://www.mackspw.com/Apex-Tungsten-Super-Shot-12-Ga-3.5-2.5-Oz

I think if one crammed 2 1/2 ounces of this stuff into a big gun that 60 to 70 yards plus would not be a problem. But I would like to get him a whole lot closer. But if he makes me mad enough after two weeks of fooling with him, well I just might make a special load just for him. I've ended many a spring having been after the same wise old bird for two weeks and being outsmarted every day.

[Phillip Carr]

Unfortunately they also show out of stock. Im thinking 2 1/2 oz of 7 1/2, 8, or 9’s would be one heck of a turkey killler. Headed to New Mexico on the 15 th, sure wish I could “Field test some”. I will keep looking.

[Todd Poer]

Charlie,

They are selling the fully loaded 2 1/2 ounce loads for $12 a shell ($59 for a box of 5 without shipping).

https://www.mackspw.com/Apex-Tungsten-Super-Shot-12-Ga-3.5-2.5-Oz

I think if one crammed 2 1/2 ounces of this stuff into a big gun that 60 to 70 yards plus would not be a problem. But I would like to get him a whole lot closer. But if he makes me mad enough after two weeks of fooling with him, well I just might make a special load just for him. I've ended many a spring having been after the same wise old bird for two weeks and being outsmarted every day.

Several years ago had a big old Tom working a pasture on a hill slope. Had jake and hen dekes at about 25 yards. He was a huge bird. Dang bird sat there in full view about 300 yards down hill from us henned up and gobbled at us for 3 straight hours but would not move toward us. Heck my hunting partner even let out a loud fart and bird hammered back at that. At about 10 o'clock we were close to calling no joy and that dang bird started casually ambling our way. I guess out of curiosity.

My buddy was a bit exposed and could not move but turkey hung up at what I thought was 50 yards. Was hunting with a 12 gauge shooting 3 inch shells and had just taken a bird a few weeks before at 50 yards with same setup but I wanted him in closer to be sure. He stood there looking straight at my partner. It lasted about 5 minutes but it felt like an eternity and bird started looking nervous and turned to take step back down the hill. I decided to cut loose. I knocked about two feathers out of him and dang bird lit out running down the hill to bottom of pasture. No kidding dang bird then stopped and looked up at us, puffed up and strutted some more and shook like a dog and then ambled off.

After he left we went and stepped off and instead of 50 yards he was 65 yards. Right where I thought he was standing was a little hump that I estimated correctly was 50 yards. Problem was there a slight depression after that hump could not see from angle of sitting then another hump past that bird was actually standing on. Judging distances in open pasture with pasture grass where you can't see feet and sitting down low with no land marks can be tough.

Sure wish I had some of that tungsten then. Found out later that bird got harvested by somebody else and it weighed out at 25 lbs and had a 15 inch beard. No record but a dang big bird.

[Jerry Harlow]

I carry my rangefinder with me and given time mark distances mentally.

[Todd Poer]

Yes sir. Used to bow hunt way before any range finders and became pretty good at estimating distances. Problem with scenario I described is that I had made note of where I thought bird was standing and believed hung up, except due to lay of the land he was standing about 15 yards farther out. Could not see that second little ridge from angle when sitting and we set up in the dark. Size of bird also gave a false of impression it was closer than it was. Also knew that if I could have seen legs and feet then might have pinpointed him better but who knows. Hindsight is 20/20 and would have set up for this bird differently but only had one shot at him.

Anyway, made me sick to misjudge that bird, I'd of let it walk if had known it was farther out than 50 yards and I was on a guest hunt. Definitely did not want to shoot up someones birds on a whim. My buddy and I both thought bird was standing in same place when I shot. 50 yards was limit of what I would try with 3 inch load of #5 lead shot and choke I was hunting with. I like what you observed about the lead shot's performance at long distance as not having much as much impact compared to tungsten. When that old bird shook like a dog it looked like he was doing it to shake shot out of his feathers.

Btw did find out after the season from a guy that did harvest that big old tom. I asked him if there were any noticeable wounds from my encounter and he said not one scratch best he could tell. Bird was not a record breaker but definitely the bird of lifetime for most of us.

Again sure wish I'd know then what I know now about what you have demonstrated with tungsten. Believe it would have made a difference for me in that one scenario, but like you, prefer to get em in closer.

[Jerry Harlow]

When you pattern the gun with lead, does it also pattern to the right or just the Tungsten Super loads? If so, any idea why?

Frank,

I did not pattern with lead but today I patterened again with TSS, and even using another gun, a 12 Trojan with .039 in the left barrel and the 12 VHE again.

Again at 40 yards shooting off a Led Sled, the guns pattern to the right greatly. Thus I am sticking to my theory they are regulated for a closer distance. I will have to remember this tomorrow if I get a chance. The 12 VHE is up first.

But most surprising is the 20 gauge one ounce TSS put more pellets in the turkey target's head than the 12s, and that was true with the Fox SW and the Franchi 48-AL. But there would have been so many body shots in all of them that nothing could escape since the TSS will go through the turkey.

[Dean Romig]

Vermont limits shot size while hunting turkeys to #8 being the smallest and #2 being the largest - though I don't know who would ever use #2 for such a tiny target.






.

[Todd Poer]

Frank,

I did not pattern with lead but today I patterened again with TSS, and even using another gun, a 12 Trojan with .039 in the left barrel and the 12 VHE again.

Again at 40 yards shooting off a Led Sled, the guns pattern to the right greatly. Thus I am sticking to my theory they are regulated for a closer distance. I will have to remember this tomorrow if I get a chance. The 12 VHE is up first.

But most surprising is the 20 gauge one ounce TSS put more pellets in the turkey target's head than the 12s, and that was true with the Fox SW and the Franchi 48-AL. But there would have been so many body shots in all of them that nothing could escape since the TSS will go through the turkey.

Good luck, hope you get a bird. That is interesting your experience with the 20 gauge but that is why you pattern things. As precise as we try to be we all are still dealing with the chaos of mini explosion scattering a bunch of pellets all over the place and hopefully more of them hit the intended target than not. Some setups just pattern better than others.

[Jerry Harlow]

Vermont limits shot size while hunting turkeys to #8 being the smallest and #2 being the largest - though I don't know who would ever use #2 for such a tiny target.






.

Dean,

They do make it in #8 equivalent.

[Frank Cronin]

Thanks for the update Jerry. Looking forward to the follow up report of your turkey hunt. Best of luck!

[Dean Romig]

It's okay - I'm good with my chilled #6 lead from .042 & .043 chokes at 45 yards or less.






.

[Todd Poer]

Jerry

Finally was playing around in the interweb and saw a video of fella shooting Federal TSS in 3.5 shell using #9. Not certain what his choke was but pretty sure it was turkey choke but he put a lot of pellets into the kill zone target at about 75 yards. Pattern was also evenly dispersed so even if you were off some, plenty of shot to wax that bird on either side. Pretty cool stuff.

[Dean Romig]

I wonder how many ounces of shot those 3.5" shells were loaded with?

Anybody here shooting 3.5" shells in their Parker?




.

[Todd Poer]

I wonder how many ounces of shot those 3.5" shells were loaded with?

Anybody here shooting 3.5" shells in their Parker?




.

Gawd I hope not unless its a bigger gun than a 12 gauge. Besides if your shooting at a turkey head at some of the distances people are patterning, you almost need a scope on the gun. I don't think I want to see a scope on a Parker.

I think Jerry is like others in finding out one of the limitations on SXS when it comes to distances, barrel regulation, sighting, point of impacts when it comes to a need of tight patterns on a small target. There is probably never going to be a need to overload a Parker for a long range distance shot on turkey. 40 yards is probably about the limit unless you start really vectoring your aim accounting for regulation left to right which can be challenging.

I know alot of really big time turkey hunters. One of them loves old sxs but he got a customized O/U that he loves and he calls it the perfect turkey gun for all occasions. Bottom barrel zeroed in at 35 yards and top barrel is dead on at 50+ yards.

[Jerry Harlow]

Thanks for the update Jerry. Looking forward to the follow up report of your turkey hunt. Best of luck!

No test volunteers so far. I've called in four so far. Opening day a 60 yard look at my decoy did not please him; Tuesday a fly down to 75 yards and one gobble (called him back at about 11 a.m.) and he said goodbye; and today, well I watched him strut at another seventy-five yards, and the clock struck twelve (end of shooting time) and he was safe for another day. We talked for over an hour. All of them have lots of concubines.

I give them 3 points for every day they beat me. I get seven for a score. Score now: 15 to 0. Three more shutouts and I can't beat them this year.

Back again tomorrow at 5 a.m.

[charlie cleveland]

i went hunting this morning for about a hour i seen a good gobbler but he was call shy....been putting radiator on my hunting truck they gave me wrong thermostat....hope to hunt a lot next week....jerry i hope you get to use that new shot load on a 60 yard turkey....charlie

[Mike Koneski]

Jerry, I just recently started loading with TSS too. Also purchased from Hal. Looking forward to smoking some gobblers in a few weeks! Amazing that the #9 has the same energy at 60 yards as the lead 4s do at 40!!! Might even use some of these for waterfowl in the future if I can't get any ITX shot. Hal is great at providing recipes for the various loads too. Using 8s or 9s throws a heck of a dense pattern at those birds!!

[Mike Koneski]

JA Early said, "I see the shot is now $53/pound. Tariffs taking effect. I guess I'll have to operate on any turkey I kill to recover the shot from him."

From what I was told if you shoot a turkey at "usual" distances there is enough energy that the shot goes right through them. They have yet to recover a pellet!!

[Todd Poer]

Dang, something tells me waterfowl hunting is going to get a lot more expensive.

[James L. Martin]

Our Turkey season opens May first, so far I can't find Federal TSS loads in any local store, all say anyday. Plus we can't order shells thur the mail thanks to New York laws.

[Jerry Harlow]

JA Early said, "I see the shot is now $53/pound. Tariffs taking effect. I guess I'll have to operate on any turkey I kill to recover the shot from him."

From what I was told if you shoot a turkey at "usual" distances there is enough energy that the shot goes right through them. They have yet to recover a pellet!!

I had a strutter yesterday about 70 yards. If he had been 60 I would have tried him and maybe recovered a few pellets. I did shoot one of the TSS loads today. Had him going crazy in the tree. Flew down, went the other way. I followed an hour later, set up in the woods on the edge of a cut-over. Watched the open oak woods. Now any experienced turkey hunter would know they prefer the cut-over to sneak to the call over open woods. Brain freeze. He saw me, clucked and before I could get the gun up was airborne so my 1 1/4 ounces of TSS are spread over five acres now as I wasn't even close. Been fooling with him for four days and now he is well educated.

[Todd Poer]

What fun. Birds like that taste better anyway. Btw once you get a bird educated you may have to back off a few days or try other subtle or aggressive tactics. Subtle ones are easier like changing a call so bird hears a different yelps. Sometimes it simple easy stuff you overlook, forgot or learn that makes a difference.

Years ago we had a bird like yours that bested us for 2 days working an area with woods, logging roads and food plots. We had that bird down in his patterns and he always did something different, but we did know about where he roosted. Got there early and owled him to roost gobble and then snuck within 300 yards of an old oak tree that had some thinned out pines it. Thinking was we would move to him some and cut him off to area of logging road on knoll he had been working. We sat down and yelped one time and he barked back at us. Off in the distance a few moments later even saw him drop out of that big old tree. We made one more yelp and he gobbled from the ground again and then we shut up, he knew where we were and it was right where we thought he wanted to be. Thinking he was going to be on us in a few minutes, then nothing but we were patient. We never heard him for almost an hour. He obviously went the other way to a food plot we knew of but never had seen him there nor any turkey sign before. So we think we need to try and move closer to him.

Luckily fella I was hunting with was way more experienced than me and said before we move lets try something. There was a crow calling way off in the distance and after the next crow call he shook an old box call and it sounded like a weak jake gobble. I had never seen that trick before. Immediately that gobbler hammered at it and he was 50 yards away from us with 3 jakes and about a dozen hens. In the span of about 30 seconds we were about to break cover and move to having a flock in our lap at 10 yards.

Thats turkey hunting.

[Mike Koneski]

Dean,

They do make it in #8 equivalent.


Hal will recommend #8s and #9s.

[John Dallas]

Seems like a great chemistry/metallurgy experiment, but $10/shell?

[Todd Poer]

Seems like a great chemistry/metallurgy experiment, but $10/shell?

Most expensive part is patterning. After that, $10 for successful hunt with a bird on the ground is probably the most inexpensive part of the whole experience. What hacks me off now is that I have boxes of lead turkey loads but now want to buy these tungsten loads. I guess its a great 1st world problem to have.

[John Dallas]

Any guesses on the effect of such hard shot on old barrels, if any? Apparently it has some sort of razzmatazz hot rod wad/shot cup

[Jerry Harlow]

Any guesses on the effect of such hard shot on old barrels, if any? Apparently it has some sort of razzmatazz hot rod wad/shot cup

In my 20 gauge 1 ounce loads it uses a 7/8 ounce wad with the top of a 28 gauge wad inside of it, and a wad under the shot inside the wad. The shot all fits within the cup. On the 1 1/4 ounce 12s it is inside a 12 gauge wad with a mylar wrap. I have looked at the bores and can see no marks or scoring. The small shot takes up very little space compared to lead.

[Jerry Harlow]

Btw once you get a bird educated you may have to back off a few days or try other subtle or aggressive tactics. Subtle ones are easier like changing a call so bird hears a different yelps. Sometimes it simple easy stuff you overlook, forgot or learn that makes a difference.



I'll eventually get him. And yes, I do change calls. I have eight calls with me at all times: 1 gobbler, 1 box, 1 pot with two different strikers for different frequencies, and four mouth calls from a juvenile hen to great great grandma.

[Todd Poer]

I'll eventually get him. And yes, I do change calls. I have eight calls with me at all times: 1 gobbler, 1 box, 1 pot with two different strikers for different frequencies, and four mouth calls from a juvenile hen to great great grandma.

Yea you will. Your definitely properly accessorized. :) What I like about challenging birds is the learning part and figuring out patterns. It's said you learn more from defeats, maybe so, but I like to learn from success just a much. He will slip up somewhere. Just a matter of time and mind over matter.

[charlie cleveland]

i have had gobblers to run away from a call ...only way for me to get at ashot at them was to ambush them....on gobblers relunkunt to come in that last few yards to be with in shooting range i learned to switch calls and only use really low calling.... i carry 6 calls with me sometimes switching calls is the majic thing to do just do not hit a sour note....charlie

[charlie cleveland]

been thinking about this number 9 shot all day cannot get it out of my mind gona have to try this soon...in a 10 ga magnum or the 8 ga this should be some kind of makic on a turkey....charlie

[Jerry Harlow]

been thinking about this number 9 shot all day cannot get it out of my mind gona have to try this soon...in a 10 ga magnum or the 8 ga this should be some kind of makic on a turkey....charlie

Charlie,

I fired on a reluctant gobbler Saturday morning after two hours of steady conversation. The penetration of the 9s was amazing; trouble was it was into a metal cattle gate at forty yards away! The bird flew away and I wasted a second shot without effect about seventy yards away.

I forgot two things. I kept saying aim to the left since the 12 VH shoots to the right at long distance; that was until I shot and I aimed straight at his head. The second thing is I could see the turkey, but did not account for the gate being in the way. I'm jinxed this year. Two misses so far. :crying:

[charlie cleveland]

sorry about missing that turkey...never tried shooting thru a metal gate before...ha you may have to get yourself a rabbit foot....this should help....it seems some sesons it is just hard to get that bird....anyway its fun chasing those birds.....charlie

[charlie cleveland]

found some tungstun shot shells last night they were priced atthirty something dollars a box...i did not know if these were the same shells that you you have jerry...the only info they give on them were that they were better than still shot...so i have not bought any yet...can you give me some place to order the shot or the ready made shells....been raining hard here this morning and evening....charlie

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Not the same thing Charlie, I don't believe anybody is selling shells loaded with the Super Shot as of yet.

[James L. Martin]

Federal is selling Turkey loads with TSS shot ,but I have not been able to locate any in 12ga in any local stores. One store has 20ga & 410 ! and only in #7.

[Todd Poer]

Federal is selling Turkey loads with TSS shot ,but I have not been able to locate any in 12ga in any local stores. One store has 20ga & 410 ! and only in #7.

I think this is correct. Jerry and Mike are hand loading some tungsten with the help of fella that seems to have a reload formula down. The only big company marketing the TSS is Federal that I know of. They have actually had some secret testers using it for years in the field. Have seen some you tube videos of patterns of TSS 8 and 9 shot out to some 70 yard shots. Density rating of tungsten is 18, lead 12 and I think steel shot is 8.

[Jerry Harlow]

found some tungstun shot shells last night they were priced atthirty something dollars a box...i did not know if these were the same shells that you you have jerry...the only info they give on them were that they were better than still shot...so i have not bought any yet...can you give me some place to order the shot or the ready made shells....been raining hard here this morning and evening....charlie

Charlie,

What you found is the new Hevi-shot they call Hevi-X I believe. It is a tungsten alloy, and not pure tungsten like TSS. Below is where you order the shot, from a guy named Hal. He will provide the load data. The only problem is other than powder and primers, the wads he uses are really not common so that will be an added expense. I wish he had used regular stuff we all use but the wads are available from Ballistic Products. So I has to order 250 12 gauge and 250 20 gauge wads to load a dozen shells.

https://www.tungstensupershots.com/

[Todd Poer]

I am really just learning about tungsten as shot alternative (Thanks Jerry), even though for many years knew military used tungsten in certain rounds, but that is for a single projectile. Anyway I am not wanting to sound like some expert since clearly not but my understanding based on work of others is that the Hevi-X was designed to be for waterfowl use and is suppose to replace steel but only be comparable to lead shot at about a density of 12.

The name of the game is density, but guessing the performance Jerry is seeking with the smaller shot he is using suggests a density of about 18. I think Hevi-shot now a trademark did try and make a turkey load with some tungsten that was suppose to have a density of 13. Here is link to shotgun world discussion. Personally I don't like to attach links to much to other forums or discussions, but this discussion may prove helpful, assuming information they provided is correct.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=459367

Btw; Jerry thank you for your work on this tungsten notion. Now I'm having a shot inferiority complex, just like cooleritus virus that I got when Yeti came out. I am now calling it tungstenitus and both can result to the dreaded procedure of a required cashectomy. :) Like some surgeries alot of them are unnecessary.

[James Halvorson]

...can you give me some place to order the shot or the ready made shells....

Hi Charlie. The go-to guy is Hal for TSS and load data. You can find him under the username of Hawglips on duckhuntingchat.com, gobblernation.com or shotgunworld.com

Gobblernation.com has a lot of info on that forum about TSS.

I've been running TSS from Hal for a few years as a specialty load. This stuff flat outperforms anything on the market at range. #6 will shoot clean through a swan at 50 yards. Pictured is my 2015 swan taken at 50+ yards. I misjudged the range and hit it mid body. Feet were pointing up at the sun before it got half way to the water. Second picture is my 2017 swan. That one was much closer, maybe 20-25 yards. Doubt it heard the shot. Both were taken with 2-3/4" 12 gauge loads containing 570 gr. of TSS-6. Very effective load and it will roll geese easily at 60+ yards.

There's no picking shot out of the meat with a TSS load!

[Tom Flanigan]

[QUOTE=Dean Romig;240896]Vermont limits shot size while hunting turkeys to #8 being the smallest and #2 being the largest - though I don't know who would ever use #2 for such a tiny target.

Dean, I don't know if Vermont has a fall season but NY does. I have taken many fall birds with #4 shooting for the body, not the head. #2's don't pattern well with any of my tightly choked 12 bores, so I went to #4 which pattern well. I've never owned a gun that patterened well with #2's. I used to use #3's on geese back in the day which I bought from Herters. In my guns, the 3's patterend well and far better than the 2's. I am a big fan of #3's. I wish it were still available.

[Richard Flanders]

I'd like to hear how you guys using this spendy tungsten shot are going to get the turkeys to pose in front of a setup that will allow recovering the shot!

[Phillip Carr]

Richard you just need a metal detector and some tweezers..

[Jerry Harlow]

I'd like to hear how you guys using this spendy tungsten shot are going to get the turkeys to pose in front of a setup that will allow recovering the shot!

Richard,

TSS is magnetic so you just walk around as you are hunting the same site in the future and drag a "cow magnet" on a rope behind you.:)

[charlie cleveland]

i ve read every thing i could find on the sst tungston shot it seems to be the best patterning at long range shot there is on the market...i could not find any loaded shells for sale all sold out... i tried getting hold of the guy hal who is selling the shot but have not been able to reach him any suggestions....charlie

[Jerry Harlow]

Charlie,

E-mail Hal Abbott at: hganc@aol.com

Let me know if he does not reply to you.

[charlie cleveland]

jerry he did not reply i ve tried to other sites he is on but cannot get thru....charlie

[King Brown]

Charlie, he's in business. I used the email address you posted and he replied. What do you think that stuff would be like in 5s and 6s (if they make them that size) for waterfowl over decoys?

[charlie cleveland]

king i bet a 5 or6 shot would be like shooting lead bbs at them passing ducks it would be like shooting 22 s thru them....i just tried the fac againand it says failed....it may be my old computer.....from some where i just got a email stateing that rogers sporting good store has the 20 ga in stock at the moment...i tried to get on their site but failed at this too...and ive never been on rogers site before....its a rainey day here....charlie

[Jerry Harlow]

Charlie, he's in business. I used the email address you posted and he replied. What do you think that stuff would be like in 5s and 6s (if they make them that size) for waterfowl over decoys?

Hal told me 7s for Canada Geese. Also for turkeys if you want a larger size. I guess a body shot with 7s would be like the old timers shooting 2s at the body.

[King Brown]

Hal Abbott address is hganc@aol.com, charlie. I just ordered three pounds of 5s to try them out. He ships to Canada.

[Mike Franzen]

If, tungsten weighs twice as much as lead do you have to use half as much?

[Jerry Harlow]

If, tungsten weighs twice as much as lead do you have to use half as much?

Yes. Half as much volume but not weight. The 1 1/4 ounce number 9s that I killed turkeys with in 12 gauge is a very small amount of shot. That's why in the 20 gauge with one ounce there is the top of a 28 gauge wad inside the 20 gauge wad and also a filler wad.

Because the shot is so much smaller, it is not affected by the drag of the wind and retains so much more energy down range. Being small, it meets less resistance once it enters the game, thus having shot that will penetrate all the way through the animal.

[Todd Poer]

Jerry I have a question for you and maybe you accounted for and mentioned it and I missed it somewhere.

Since you have rigged up your own loads do you think the diameter of the shot in shell with your double wad of say 20 & 28 gauge reduces the load diameter so its about the same or smaller than the choke constriction. I am guessing the double wad maybe does this plus also gives enough cushion because that tungsten is not going to give very much when pressed thru a forcing cones and a barrel choke.

[Jerry Harlow]

Jerry I have a question for you and maybe you accounted for and mentioned it and I missed it somewhere.

Since you have rigged up your own loads do you think the diameter of the shot in shell with your double wad of say 20 & 28 gauge reduces the load diameter so its about the same or smaller than the choke constriction. I am guessing the double wad maybe does this plus also gives enough cushion because that tungsten is not going to give very much when pressed thru a forcing cones and a barrel choke.

First, I didn't rig up my own load. These were developed and tested for/by Hal, who also provided the pressure. All of the loads he has provided to me are low pressure.

As far as constriction, this is no different than shooting steel in a very thick wad. It still gets compressed and since not a single shot gets deformed, the patterns are great. Look at the picture I provided of the one ounce 20 gauge through a standard full choke at 40 yards. That pattern would kill every time at 40, and probably 50 yards. There were 24 hits in just the head and neck areas.

[Frank Srebro]

………. Because the shot is so much smaller, it is not affected by the drag of the wind and retains so much more energy down range. Being small, it meets less resistance once it enters the game, thus having shot that will penetrate all the way through the animal.

Jerry, much of what's been passed here is in subjective terms (less wind drag, more energy, less resistance, complete penetration through the animal?).

It would be good to see the inventor's tech data that compares velocity and energy bleedoff rates for tungsten vs. lead with the same diameter pellets at 10 yards or so increments, something like 20-30-40-50-60 yards. Also to see the measured penetration at those yardages in an accepted medium like pine wood or similar. Data for lead pellets is available from references. Downrange pattern density is one parameter, but measured terminal velocity, energy and penetration are other important ones for the inventor's different pellet sizes and especially so when recommending something like TSS 9's for turkeys at longish ranges.

"The Tungsten 9s have the same penetration at 70 yards as lead 9s do at 15 yards" ….. I'd particularly like to see the tech data on that.

frank

[Todd Poer]

First, I didn't rig up my own load. These were developed and tested for/by Hal, who also provided the pressure. All of the loads he has provided to me are low pressure.

As far as constriction, this is no different than shooting steel in a very thick wad. It still gets compressed and since not a single shot gets deformed, the patterns are great. Look at the picture I provided of the one ounce 20 gauge through a standard full choke at 40 yards. That pattern would kill every time at 40, and probably 50 yards. There were 24 hits in just the head and neck areas.

I appreciate that clarification and understood you were following a formula. Also understood your pattern boards that you shared which backs up everything I have seen and read about tungsten and performance qualities.

Did not realize it was also a lower pressure load. Thanks for followup.

[Jerry Harlow]

Jerry, much of what's been passed here is in subjective terms (less wind drag, more energy, less resistance, complete penetration through the animal?).

It would be good to see the inventor's tech data that compares velocity and energy bleedoff rates for tungsten vs. lead with the same diameter pellets at 10 yards or so increments, something like 20-30-40-50-60 yards. Also actual measured penetration at those yardages in an accepted medium like pine wood or similar. Data for lead pellets is available from references. Downrange pattern density is one parameter, but measured terminal velocity, energy and penetration are other important ones for the inventor's different pellet sizes and especially so when recommending something like TSS 9's for turkeys at longish ranges.

"The Tungsten 9s have the same penetration at 70 yards as lead 9s do at 15 yards" ….. I'd particularly like to see the tech data on that.

frank

Frank,

I posted it earlier in the thread.

http://www.trapshooters.com/threads/the-difference-in-shot-ballistics-with-different-shot-densities.267784/

[Frank Srebro]

Thank you Jerry, I'll have to look at this in detail once I get more time after the Northeast SxS. I'm not familiar with that gel as a penetration test medium for shotgun pellets. Personally I like 3/8" thick pine wood boards as used by Capt Askins who wanted to see complete 3/8” penetration to help cipher the max reliable kill distance for that size pellet (along with number of hits at that distance). IME, it’s always good to objectively test newly-developed pellet materials against "tried and true” lead loads of the past.

frank

[Mike Franzen]

This might have been addressed and I just missed it. Is their any known concerns with shooting tungsten through a damascus bbl with full chokes?

[Dean Romig]

Being harder than steel and denser than lead, I would think so.






.

[Todd Poer]

Yea, I don't think they recommend shooting steel shot even thru full choke fluid steel barrels. There could be work arounds though but think your pushing your luck with damascus on anything harder than lead

I think there are some English loads called Black Gold that use a Tungsten powder that are molded into pellets, supposedly acts like lead, but think its a non toxic shot as opposed to high energy down range shot.

[charlie cleveland]

i finally got hold of halwill be ordering shot soon...hal says he will provide reloading info...i should say my wife got the email to go thru....will be testing the shot soon got to make me a shot catcher like j a made....charlie

[David Gehman]

I have been following the praises of this shot and it is remarkable. However, and keep this in mind I have not hunted turkey for more than a few years. I thought the point was to call them in. How many turkeys have been killed with lead shot and old guns? Yes at more than 40 yards with tight chokes a scope is in order, maybe an account for the drop in elevation beyond much more distance?
I guess man will always push the limits.

[Jerry Harlow]

I have been following the praises of this shot and it is remarkable. However, and keep this in mind I have not hunted turkey for more than a few years. I thought the point was to call them in. How many turkeys have been killed with lead shot and old guns? Yes at more than 40 yards with tight chokes a scope is in order, maybe an account for the drop in elevation beyond much more distance?
I guess man will always push the limits.

The point of my thread was that it would be no longer necessary to carry and hold up that 10 gauge Parker or even an 8 gauge for turkeys. There is nothing worse than crippling a magnificent turkey. Yes, the idea is to get them in less than 40 yards. But sometimes they don't and sometimes we screw up and shoot at over 40; and lose a turkey to the vermin of the woods.

Small bore to me means and is usually accepted to be 16 gauge and smaller. With the TSS, I feel confident that a tightly choked 20 gauge with just one ounce will kill every time out to 40 yards.

On the last turkey I killed on a wet morning before daylight with the trees full of leaves I got within thirty yards of a roosted bird. For nearly an hour I held up a 12 gauge 1910 Fox A grade choked modified and full; I could not have held up a heavy 10. I had my finger over the front trigger thinking he is flying down right in front of me. He flew away and hit the ground at over fifty yards and my brain did not react and I pulled the trigger when he hit the ground. Lead, no bird and a big mistake. With TSS, my light load of 1 1/4 ounces of 9s killed him as dead as a stone. Wrong barrel, wrong choke, too far, but it is a forgiving shot. Next year, I will move down to a 16 or a 20 since I know what it will do. For a stubborn bird, I will take the modern 10 and throw 2 1/4 ounces at him if I get the chance!

My eastern turkeys never react as the ones I watch on TV, coming in in a flock to attack a decoy, and then standing around so a second one gets shot by the cameraman. You'll see my videos are usually in open oak woods and it is one bird at a time. My birds are not TV actors. I'm always baffled by the advertisement for tight choke tubes and special shells, and every video shows a turkey killed at ten yard blowing its head off, where any gun even the lowly .410 would have killed it. When I get them to thirty yards, I let the pattern do the work; I don't wait for the five yard shot.

[charlie cleveland]

anybody loading the tungston shot and pattering it..i have not bought any yet but plan to soon...i loaded up some 10 ga hulls the other day they are brass some of the old hulls had to be over a hundred years old...always wanted to load these old brass hulls and now i know how and done it....been interested in 10 ga round balls here lately one thing for sure not much info on loading round ball 10 ga loads.... i have shot 12 ga slugs in a 10 ga by useing a gauge mate...the accuracy is pretty good out of one barrel but not to good in the other barrel....charlie

[Jerry Harlow]

Charlie,

Look at my very first post on this thread. There are photos of the patterns. The reason I loaded 12s to start with was to shoot the 1 1/4 ounce in my 10s with GaugeMates, or 12s if I wanted to. I never got around to shooting the shells in my 10 but shot them in three different 12s with killing patterns at 40 yards, and even one ounce in the 20.

[charlie cleveland]

jerry i looked at the pattern those are really something...i like the idea of useing gauge mates in the 10 ga with this new shot..but i m just gona have to try it in my 8 ga you know how it is....got to try a paper target at 75 yards...i know big shot like 2 s and bb s will kill at extreme ranges my farthest shot with the 8 ga has been 67 steps with a clean kill useing lead bb s 2 3/4 ounce of shot... if i had a modern 8 ga i believe i could go to 3 ounces and be ok i have shot 3 ounces in the mag 10 and in the 8 ga the 10 did not pattern well but the 8 ga shooting lead bbs put several holes in a 5 gallon plastic bucket at 85 steps and the shot went thru both sides with ease...and this was a thick plastic bucket.... i too may have to shoot the smaller gauges soon....charlie