Roundel Question

[Tom Hawkins]

Most of the information seems to point to one engraver that did most of this engraving shortly after 1900. I know of at least one B grade hammer gun that has what appears to be roundel engraving at the back center of the side plates. Is this roundel since it is not a box lock ?

[Bruce Day]

The roundel form in Parkers is known on mostly C grades, several Bs and one D made between 1900 and 1905. What year is the hammer gun?

[Tom Hawkins]

Serial # 26276

[Dean Romig]

And one 0-frame sixteen gauge Grade-2 that I know of.



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[Tom Hawkins]

This poor picture illustrates my question. The encircled birds are to the rear of the locks. Could the roundel pattern be carried over from hammer guns?

[Dean Romig]

Yes Tom, it's a distinct possibility that the roundel motif is a carry-over from the hammer gun motif found on a few of the higher grades.





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[Michael Moffa]

Who did the engraving in this time frame?

[MARK KIRCHER]

Grade 2 hammer / lifter 246XX
Would this be considered a roundel as it is on bottom ......

[Dean Romig]

Mark, that is considered to be a “game scene vignette” in a circular panel. It could be called “roundel” but it isn’t the ‘roundel’ style most often referred to on the sides of the frames on hammerless guns most often discussed here.





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[Bruce Day]

Rondel side panel.

[Tom Hawkins]

Here is another one.

[Dean Romig]

Looks like you've restocked it Tom. You told me that was your plan.





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[Kirk Potter]

Anyone have an example of a BH?

[Greg Baehman]

Here's a BH that Bruce and/or Dean have shown us before . . . this one with Bernard and double roundels . . . one of only a couple known to exist.

[Michael Moffa]

Grade 4, I'd love to know who the engraving is attributed to.

[Kirk Potter]

Thanks guys.

[Brian Dudley]

There is also examples of a roundel engraved BH in The Parker Story.

[Tom Hawkins]

All of these examples seem to have border engraving of different types and styles.

[Kirk Potter]

I’ve been looking at a lot of different factory engraving lately trying to decide what I’d go with if I ever had a “upgrade” custom made. I’d like to stay with a factory style if I do. I like the factory engraving that’s a bit out of the ordinary, that you don’t see very often.

[Brian Dudley]

The Roundel pattern was primarily used on C grade guns from around 1900 to 1905 and only about 25% of Cs from that period are engraved in that style.

The common feature of these guns was the prominent line borders that hook on the bottom of the gun on rear of trigger plate. This style is attributed to Joseph Loy.

Here is an example. A CH upgrade done in this pattern by Gournet.

65044

[Brian Dudley]

65047

[Brian Dudley]

65046

[Kirk Potter]

Damn Brian! Now that is one beautiful gun. Gournet’s engraving is outstanding. Love those woodcock.

[Brian Dudley]

Yeah, I was really happy with how it turned out. I just told him I wanted a game bird on the bottom and suggested woodcock. That is what he came up with.

[Tom Hawkins]

Sweet gun Brian. That gun would show well anywhere, anytime and I bet it is a great shooter as well.

[Bill Holcombe]

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/569ea8250ab37781807f6945/56e31c08746fb91c91ca038a/57a4db10e58c62b59d5fe9df/1482852090572/16366-03.jpg?format=1500w

Technically not a roundell, but this CHE is similar style

[Dean Romig]

I love that engraving! I wonder what year that one was produced in... possibly immediately before or immediately after the engraved roundel circle around the game scene era...

The style and execution of the setter makes me think just after...






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[Bill Holcombe]

Yeah Steve has had it for sale for a while surprisingly, I have been tempted but never pulled the trigger. It has a beautiful woodcock on the bottom I believe.

[Dean Romig]

Too bad it doesn't have the original stock.





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[Bill Holcombe]

yeah that has been the primary hold up for me as well.

[Michael Moffa]

Another Rondel variation on a grade 4.

[Dean Romig]

This is an untouched C grade stock head... the difference is very obvious. Wish I had a better picture that shows the whole head... guess I'll go down to my gun room and photograph it...

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[Bill Holcombe]

That said Dean, if it had Bernards and was priced a wee bit cheaper I don't know that I would care about the stock.

Too bad it doesn't have the original stock.





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[Brian Dudley]

Dean,

Look at the bottom of the gun that Bill posted a photo of, you can just barely see the hooked border engraving on the trigger plate typical of Roundel guns. I think this one would fall right in line as a variation of that design.

[Dean Romig]

I agree Brian and most likely even by the same engraver, which is the generally accepted 'truth' of 'all' roundel engraved Parkers.





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[Michael Moffa]

Anybody want to venture a guess as to who the engraver was? Also would it be prudent to have a registry of these unique guns? We all pass from this mortal coil and take most of our knowledge with us. Also most of our collections are scattered to the winds as succeeding generations don't share our passions. I would be willing to give written and photo documentation to the PGCA Factory letter writer for research purposes for future generations. Is this something that the PGCA should take on?

[Kirk Potter]

I like that the roundel engraving is different enough to distinguish it from a DH. It’s not surpising to me the CH didn’t sell all that well when you sometimes have to do a double take because they’re so similar.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Couple 300.00 dollar grades with Roundel

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

one at a time

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

another view

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

one more maybe

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Sorry for the last one do not have a close up, Maybe Brian does? Gary

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

one more maybe

[Brian Dudley]

Here you go Gary. This is as close as I have.

65948

65949

[Kirk Potter]

The more I see of higher grade Parker hammer guns, the more I want one.. Beautiful guns.