Ogden-Smiths Hussey

[Jeff Davison]

I picked up a 20ga with 28" barrels. The gun shop was selling it as parts as they measured the barrel wall thickness .012 9" from muzzle. The thinnest I could measure was .02 on either barrel at any place. There is evidence that it has been fired, after/if it was honed. The barrels are steel and light, 2 pounds 1.4 oz without the forearm on a digital scale. The entire shotgun only weighs 5 pounds 6.2oz. It's a nice condition little gun wood, action, ejectors don't show abuse or restoration. The exterior of the barrels show wear as expected for the gun as a whole. I have two questions: It seems to be on the edge of safe to shoot. As stated above there is evidence it has been shot. So, I need the thoughts of people with more experience on this. My second request is for input on anyone's experience with Briley tubes. I'm thinking of both 410 and .28. With their fitted tubes, it would still be under 6 pounds.

Any history on this would also be appreciated. There seems to be a limited amount, mostly history and years in business. Nothing regarding grades, production numbers, etc. Apparently Griffin and Howe has some records on these, but not this particular one.

Thanks in advance
Jeff

[Eric Johanen]

Why not have it sleeved back to 20 ga.? If the gun is in good condition and you have little money in it sleeving would be a good alternative.

[Jay Gardner]

I’m a big fan of any gun with Hussey engraved on it but .012 is really thin no matter where it is. The Hussey Of Ogden, Smith and Hussey was HJ Hussey’s son. G&H has some of HJ’s records but I don’t know about O,S,H records.

Would you mind posting some photos of the gun?

JDG

[Rich Anderson]

I've had Briley full length sub gauge tubes fitted. It was a somewhat different set up as they were sub gauge tubes in an O/U for shooting skeet. I never had any problems with them and they came with several choke's, If they didn't add to much weight it might be a viable alternative.

[Ken Hill]

Double check the wall thickness and maybe have someone else measure them. 20 thousandths at 9" from the muzzle should be ok. The main pressure is towards the breech. They are thin and will dent easier.

Atkin, Grant & Lang https://www.agl-uk.com may hold the records. If you send them an email, they will respond.

Ken

[Jeff Davison]

I've owned shotguns that were sleeved, my first thought on all of them was obviously, what happened to the barrels? Second thought was who did the repair? Third thought is always the most important, would I let one of daughters shoot the thing? To me, sleaving kind of diminishes the story of the shotgun. That excludes situations where there is no feasible alternative.

I'll get some pics posted in the next few days.

I'm taking it to my normal gunsmith this week to have him check it out. I checked the thickness using the gunshop's equipment (same equipment they used to get .012) and came up with .020, I then used mine (home made and good for most situations) and came up with .022.

I spent a great deal of time both in the shop and at home trying to come up with their numbers because I found it hard to believe the steel on this was a little over 2x's the thickness of an aluminum can and I'm certainly no professional gunsmith.

Thanks again for any input.

Jeff

[Ken Hill]

Jeff,

I assume you measured around the barrels (i.e., next to the rib, top, bottom, and the opposite side of the rib). Did the gun shop show you where the thin spot is located?

I know you don't want to have the gun sleeved. Even if you did, I'm not sure who does sleeving in the states. I heard there are issues finding tubes.

Ken

[John Campbell]

When in doubt, sleeve the gun. Here's the absolute best:

http://www.merringtongun.com

[Jeff Davison]

A Few Pics

[Jeff Davison]

More Pics

[Jeff Davison]

A few pics, it's raining here so inside is what I can do.

I have measured the barrels extensively, to the point their salesperson left, then the gunsmith left. They may have thought I was about to have a romantic encounter with the shotgun.

Jeff

[Eric Johanen]

If that was my gun, as nice as it is, if the barrels are too thin I'd have it sleeved. Too nice a gun not to bring up to shooting condition.

[charlie cleveland]

if those barrels mike out at 20 to 22 thousand i would not be affraid to shoot the gun...i have a gun with barrels of this thickness and i shoot it a lot...charlie

[wayne goerres]

I would bet a lot of people bought these old guns before anyone started measuring them and shot the snot out of them. I shot a lot of them and never had a barrel measured. If Brad says their to thin I would probably take his word for it.

[davidboyles]

That gun is a beaut Merrington is the best sleever and that's what I would do. I had 28 ga inserts made by Briley for an Island lock 1873 Purdey hammergun and they worked nice but changes balance of gun. Gun was a 12 and did not have to have I just thought 28's would be fun. I had an Army Navy looked just like your gun was very lite 20ga, resurrect that fine little double. I had a .017 thin nitro proofed 12 ga Westley I shot a bunch and never had a problem used RST. They were thin. Found it hard to sell because of that.

[Ken Hill]

Jeff,

Nice stick of wood on the gun and a nice gun. As I said, if the measurements are 20 thou towards the end of the muzzle, it should be ok with normal low pressure loads. You can always send it to Kirk Merrington and get his opinion on it being safe to shoot.

Ken

[Bob Brown]

Jeff, did you take any measurements of the bore diameter? If so, could you post a picture of the barrel flats with the proof marks? We might be able to tell the original bore diameter and whether it is still "in proof". Sometimes a light game gun was made with fairly thin wall barrels so it might not have been honed too much, if at all.

[Jeff Davison]

Barrel Flats

[Ken Hill]

Jeff,

The gun was reproved in 1993 (London). The chambers are 2.5" (65mm). The bore diameter is 16 mm = .625 inches. A nominal 20 gauge is .615. Did you measure the bore diameter?

Ken

[Todd Poer]

I am guessing but the lack of explicit direct evidence and compelling circumstantial evidence, I'd say its probably a gun safe to shoot, at least I know I would, and I am pretty wary around old guns. If that gun was reproofed in 1993 and shot using modern powders and not touched since then, then probably okay. But I am not shooting it and I think you have a legitimate point and prudence to make sure. My Parker VH 16 has very thin barrels at the muzzle and I know it has not been honed or anything and I shoot 1 oz loads thru it without too much concern, but will probably start dropping down to RST loads.

BTW that is a very nice looking gun, would be proud addition to any arsenal. Obviously it looks like it came as part of a matched pair, is there any indication the 2nd is in proximity of this gun.

[Jeff Davison]

Thanks all for all the information. I don't know where the match to the set is. I did find an old auction listing for a 12ga that is one serial number below this one, but not the other gun of the pair.

Thanks
Jeff

[Jay Gardner]

How much does it weight? Curious if the frame is scaled for a 20 or 12.

[Jeff Davison]

Jay, sorry for the delay responding. 5 pounds 6 pounces on a digital scale.

[Craig Budgeon]

There is an excellent article on Ogden, Smith, & Hussey in a DGJ article but I am 1600miles away from my reference material. Your gun has been proved in 1993 as stated but that only attest to its strength on the day of proof testing. Metal fatigues after so many cycles, hours, or applications and the barrels on that gun are marginal NOW. The barrels look reblued to me as the breech looks to be below the fences and if a dent had been raised that may account for the .012 wall thickness. 16.0 MM = .6299 inches

[John Morris]

This site came up on a search and I joined. I have an Ogden Smiths and Hussey 20 ga given by my grandfather and now I want to give it down a couple of more generations. The gun is lightweight and small-built for a woman. The stock was replaced in about 1960 and the job was pretty poor. I would like to have a classy stock done by a true professional, and it appears that I should have the gun measured for strength before it is given to my granddaughter. Any suggestions. Thanks for the help.

[Eddie Kay]

My H H Hussey sidelock. https://i.postimg.cc/T3vr7MCc/DSC00751.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/MT4Dzs8Z/DSC00744.jpg

[Arthur Shaffer]

It's been mentioned in this thread a few times, but I think the most immediate action should be to measure the bores id. It is a much simpler task than measuring the wall thickness and many more people have the equipment. A reproof in 1993 is a relatively recent event in an English shotgun, and a measurement would show if the bores had been modified since then. If they are still at the proof diameter, the only way they would be out of proof is that they had been restruck and reblued since then. I would suspect that the barrels were reblued while the gun was being honed.