Cracked Barrel!

[Mark Ray]

I have/HAD!! a really nice graded Baker 12, with gorgeous damascus barrels. I was pulling a couple of guns out to wipe down this evening, and when I peered down the barrel, I discovered a perfectly straight crack, running the entire length of the left barrel from the forcing cone to the bore!! It lines up perfectly with the bottom rib. Wanted to cry!, hoped maybe it was a “left behind” from a swabbing, so I ran a bore snake a dozen times thru it,,,,,just made the damn crack seem cleaner and straighter!! First time I have ever seen a failure like this. I have never put more than RST lites 1 oz thru it!,

On the lookout for donor barrels. Martini time:cuss:...........

[Mills Morrison]

That stinks

[Rick Losey]

i would be curious to know the wall thickness along the crack

or if its on the rib - as near as you can get

i am sure Drew will have something to say soon

[Steve Huffman]

Strange that it would run parallel with the rib . I would think it would stop on the next weld in line , do you know the barrel wall thickness in those areas ?

[Mark Ray]

I dont....bought the gun before I was savvy about such things. The crack is either alon the bottom rib, or between the ribs. So it is fit some donor barrels, or stick a set of briley 16 bore tubes in the gun and move on down the road.....nice gun, but not nice enough to fix right.

[Gary Laudermilch]

A full length longitudinal crack in Damascus barrels? Just does not seem right. This will be an interesting discussion. It will not cost anything to measure the wall thickness and will certainly aid in the discussion. If you intend to scrap the barrels I bet some expert here would love to dissect them.

[Mark Ray]

There is an OLD rib repair, just ahead of the chambers and look like they maybe put screws in rhar anchored in the forend lug. Maybe they suckud up on them to much, putting strain on the “roundness of the barrels....who knows. When I cool down, I will take some pics, and maybe send the tubes to someone here that can inspect properly. I agree, it seems counterintuitice taht welded barrels wouls crack in a straight line. This put a real damper on the arrival of the 1 frame VH 16 that showed up today!

[Mark Ray]

There is an OLD rib repair, just ahead of the chambers and look like they maybe put screws in rhar anchored in the forend lug. Maybe they suckud up on them to much, putting strain on the “roundness of the barrels....who knows. When I cool down, I will take some pics, and maybe send the tubes to someone here that can inspect properly. I agree, it seems counterintuitice taht welded barrels wouls crack in a straight line. This put a real damper on the arrival of the 1 frame VH 16 that showed up today!

By the way, I Can spell better than the above example....my ADHD kicks in when I am P&#@$$#D!!

[davidboyles]

Mark, Damn sorry to hear about your Baker but it doesn't make any difference what brand or model just hate to see old guns buggered up beyond repair.

[Forrest Grilley]

Sounds more like a scratch left over from a steel or tungsten pellet that worked it's way through a shot cup. The fact it starts at the forcing cone is a tell tale sign. It really doesn't sound like a crack, but anything is possible I guess.

I wonder if somehow a non-tox pellet got dropped into a shell by accident? A light weight target wad wouldn't offer any protection to the barrel if that was the case.

Just a guess.

[Victor Wasylyna]

A full length longitudinal crack in Damascus barrels? Just does not seem right.

I second this. Shot rub through would make sense, but not a crack. Keep us posted.

-Victor

[Bob Brown]

Sorry to hear of your Baker problem. I seem to recall seeing an article or thread that had pictures of a damascus barrel that failed in a line along the rib. When the ribs were taken off there was heavy, heavy corrosion, especially where the bottom rib met the barrel. IIRC the consensus was that acid from the etching process on a barrel refinish was sealed inside the rib void with moisture and that caused the corrosion. Does anyone else recall that? It may be my memory is just playing tricks on me.

[Mark Ray]

I second this. Shot rub through would make sense, but not a crack. Keep us posted.

-Victor

Dunno, looks “cracky” to me....Hope you guys are right though!!

[Phillip Carr]

Mark just an idea. I made a tool out of a brass rod that allows me to insert into a barrel and feel visable pitting. It does not measure how deep, but you might be surprised how swallow pitting really is that looks bad.
You can detect with some degree how sever the pitting is. Dean Harris with SKEETS Gave me this idea.
I am sure you could detect a crack using his tool. Also with out too much work you could build a vaccum or pressure tester. Even pluging the end of the barrel and pouring in some solvent should confirm a leak I would think.
It just seems strange the crack would be so perfect.
My experience where I have seen corrosion along an aircraft stringer where it meets the fuselage skin, the line although it ran horizontal fairly stright. The resulting crack was jagged and very porous.

http://parkerguns.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=60424&stc=1&d=1518493051

[Phillip Carr]

http://parkerguns.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=60426&stc=1&d=1518493292

[Mark Ray]

Man, I hope you guys are right...have lots of “testing ideas...will report as i begin getting insight. On another note, tha 1frame VH 16 resto, I got in today is a nice gun...weighs just 6.e lbs, feels great!,.....

If this turns out to be a scratch, gonna throw a lil party...but not hopeful.....

Stay Tuned

[Steve Huffman]

How do they sound if you tap them ? Would they still ring with a crack ? Can you plug it and pressure test rubber stoppers and air under water .

[Todd Poer]

That does sound rough. In hindsight actually you should be probably thankful in your prudent maintenance to find the issue before it discovered you. I am thankful to be reading about a broken gun instead of a cataclysmic failure and a broken you. Hopefully it is a shot scratch but even then it may have weakened barrels which would give me pause. Sounds like a nice gun but also sounds like you have plenty of other big bore guns to safely shoot now that your a small bore man now with that new to you 16 gauge. Out with the old, old and in with the new old.:):dh:

BTw, if you have a dentist friend go and get an old probe from him, if it is a crack that probe will feel it like a cavity toot sweet. I think the brass gizmo Phil worked up is great but you may need a sharper point. I am sure there are lots of thoughts to a cause and cure. I try and never tell a man what he should do with his time, money or toys and hopefully a modest cure and solution is available, but doing nothing and moving on is an option.

Also just remembered Edgar Spencer is the sites resident and practicing metallurgist. He may have some thoughts as well. A while back we got into a discussion regarding steel re-crystallization and old barrels, but don't think this what is happening. He maybe able to weigh in. Could be a combination of things that are finally rearing its ugly head.

[Rich Anderson]

Send the barrels to Brad Batchelder and have him evaluate them.

[John Campbell]

Sorry to say, but this issue is NOT one that can be resolved on this forum. An expert professional hands-on evaluation is the only way to be sure. I suggest you contact Kirk Merrignton. He's the one who can discern the truth of it.

http://www.merringtongun.com

[Daniel G Rainey]

Hate that for anyone.

[Mark Ray]

General question....would a nickel plated pellet be able to scratch a damascus bore? This is a very early Baker A grade with 4 kroil barrels. I shot some RST low pressure loads they made for me special a couple of years ago for pigeons out of this gun last year, (the last time I shot it)....not going to shoot the gun till gone over, but wondering?

[Mark Ray]

How do they sound if you tap them ? Would they still ring with a crack ? Can you plug it and pressure test rubber stoppers and air under water .

DUH!!! Cannot believe that I didn't try and ring the barrels first thing.....like bells! both tubes sounding identical, and that is on a gun with a forearm lug repair! I brought the barrels with me to the office today, and after ringing them, took a dental scaler and was able to scrape whatever this is, (definitely metallic) off of the surface of the tube....SO I got my cordless drill, a rod and jag, a frontier pad and some ballistol, (everyone has those in his or her office right) and went to work. The crack is gone!!!! AMAZING!! I still cannot believe that the bore snake, and it was a fresh one, with an aggressive brass brush on it, did not phase this thing!

SO my most sincere and humble apologies my sensationalism!!! But, I am so happy this gun was not ruined, it is an early gun ser. # 2254.

Thanks for all of the input, especially those that doubted a scratch!

[edgarspencer]

Not having seen these barrels, I am only 98% sure this is not a crack. Pressures sufficient to cause a barrel crack would have ruptured before going down the entire bore, and cracks in damascus barrels do night form as you are describing.
There are many good NDT labs in most metropolitan areas, and can perform one of several exams which will be more conclusive than blind internet guesses.
Also, I would doubt a plated lead pellet would do this, by itself. If a pellet were to leave a trace down the bore, it would be so slight that any good bore scrubbing would remove it.

[Daniel Carter]

Glad to hear it!!! Any way to identify what the material was? Have had some awful leading streaks in vintage guns but none that looked like that

[Todd Poer]

Awesome Mark. Glad there is significant hope and it did not turn out as bad as you first thought. Seeing something suspicious on an old gun barrel is like getting a fever and not feeling sick. First thing you do is go to Web MD and look up symptoms and everything starts with a fever. Start adding in a few more symptoms like a pimple at the base of your spine and next thing you know your certain you have a Bangladeshi epizootic hemorrhagic fever, and yours would be the second reported case ever if confirmed.

Best prescription as go ring those barrels like a cow bell and then go shoot that 16 gauge. Glad you didn't get blowed up.

[Dean Romig]

Great news Mark.

I have a set of 12 ga. Damascus barrels with a 'line' going from the edge of the forcing cone right out through the muzzle. It isn't especially deep, maybe 2 - 3 thousandths but caused me some concern when I first noticed it. The comforting factor was that it is too wide for its entire length to be a crack. It is a deep scratch but it had to be something pretty hard on the side of a shot charge at one time before I owned the barrels. I shoot these barrels regularly these days.





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[Drew Hause]

Never mind, but glad for the good news.
If the barrels have not been evaluated by a double gun specialist, maybe this was a hint to do so?
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=504941&#Post504941

[Richard Flanders]

I agree with Edgar. I can't see how a crack could possibly form across all the wraps of material of such different properties as in a damascus barrel. Just doesn't sound plausible. A scratch yes, but not a crack. You should do some research on the nature of the nickel plating used on shot. Some nickel plating contains silicon-carbide or sapphire, both of which would make it more than hard enough to scratch steel.

[Mark Ray]

I still feel like “chicken little” for freaking out about the Baker, but it is one of my fav’s, of the maker representatve guns I own. Took it to a friends place in the Rio Grand Valley today, and proceeded to make a down payment on my next Parker by eating these guys up with the Baker shooting wobble trap “Miss and Outs”.....whooped a MX8, a Kolar, two 1100’s, a ”new” Fox, variuos other one or two rounders.....played five games of it, and only split one round (the last one) , with a ranch hand, shooting a “POS” J C Higgins pump!! Just goes to show you!!

Now, if can just stick a Nilgai Bull in the next two days, all will be right with the universe!!

[Mike Franzen]

Reading this reminded me of a similar occurrence I had a couple years ago with 10 gauge barrels. I got the gun out to clean it and when I looked down the left bore there was a line running the length of the barrel. I started thinking the worse. Running a bore snake didn’t phase it. I was wracking my brain as to what it could be when I suddenly remembered the last time I cleaned it. I scrubbed the bore with #9 and only wiped out the right barrel. I ran out of patches before I could wipe out the left. I let the gun sit overnight on the bench and
the next day put it away without giving another thought to it. I believe the residue from the #9 pooled and dried in the barrel as it laid horizontally. The drill and pad routine did remove it much to my relief.