W. Richards Liverpool 10

[Mark Ray]

I was having a private conversation with member David Boyles about our recent foray into 10 bore guns, and I mentioned the english hammer 10 I acquired this summer. W. Richards, hammer 10, 32” “london fine twist” barrels! The gun weighs almost 11 lbs., and is outstanding original condition, with mirror bores, lots of barrel color, and 60% case color remaining. The unusual thing is the chambers, I am almost certain they have not been altered, but they measure
3 1/4”.

[Mark Ray]

Couple more

[Ken Hill]

Mark,

A nice looking 10 bore! The barrel flats proof markings should tell you the original chamber length.

Ken

[Mark Landskov]

Proof markings did not include chamber lengths until 1925.

[Ken Hill]

Agree but, on 12 gauges you can determine the chamber length by the proof (e.g., 1 1/8 oz is 2 1/2" chamber).

Ken

[davidboyles]

Mark that's a real beauty have you fired it yet? Given the weight not much push I bet. I assume very tight chokes. I intend to take my parker 10 out and pattern the barrels both 28" and 32" tubes before I go after the turkeys. Did I tell you I dropped 7 doves with it on the last week of season. used 28' barrels and 1 1/8 oz loads. Hammers are a bear to cock but triggers are light so minute I saw doves I cocked both barrels to be ready. Hope we get to chase turkeys together like last year. So glad you got to use the little Ambassador reel on a big red a real rush to catch big fish with only your thumb!!!

[Dave Noreen]

In the 1880s and 90s UMC offered 10-gauge paper and all brass NPEs up to 3 1/4 inch.

[Mark Ray]

Thanks Researcher!

I measured the chambers several times. This gun is obviously older than the era where chamber length ang coke etc. were listed. I think it is from the “bore diameter era” as one barrel is marked 11 and one marked 12, with 10g chambers. Thia gun is so heavy, and stout, that I could surmise that it was intended for quite a stout load.

What were those 3” and 3 1/4” inch loads like???

[John Campbell]

If the barrels of this gun are marked as you say: 11 & 12 bore, then I would suggest you measure the bores to see if they mic out to an actual 10-bore.

It is my admittedly remote suspicion that this gun may have been a 12 bore, rechambered to 10 bore -- with undersize 10 bores being the result of honing out 11 and 12 bore barrels to clean them up.

Just to be safe, the barrel wall thickness should also be checked. Especially if a 10-bore rechamber job cut cones out too far.

This is all speculation from a distance. If the gun shoots well, it's probably fine.

[Rick Losey]

always safety first John

but i'm curious - i have a light unaltered 12 with the bores proofed at 13 - i have seen one marked 14-

if 12's can have tight bores- why not a 10- and would a 12 have originally had an oversized tube marked 11 in that day?

i think the weight also speaks to an original 10

but - having said that - i'd be measuring the walls ahead of the chambers very carefully -

long chambers were made as shown here

look about 1/2 way down in the second column from the left to the specs for Dr Willimson's new Lefever - a 12 ga with 3 1/4 chambers for a heavy load

http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1895/VOL_26_NO_04/SL2604014.pdf

[John Campbell]

A bore mic should tell all. There's a good bit of difference between .775 and .729.

And... HOW he is measuring the chambers makes a difference. It should NOT be with a stick gauge like the Galazan. Professional tools are called for here. For chamber and cone!

[Mark Ray]

Will need to send the barrels out for a thorough check they are Birmingham proofed, BP prior to 1875, and possibly prior to 1868. Hard to overstate how massive they are, also, as shown below, there is large numeral 2 on the rib. Wonder if these are barrels for gun #2 or barrel set # 2 for this gun.

[Mark Ray]

I just looked at my light 12 bore Hemenway’s New Model hammer gun of the same vintage, and both barrels are marked as 14 bore. Also a pre ‘75 gun. That gun has 2 1/2” chambers.

[Richard Flanders]

What a pretty gun! That is nice.

[Jim DiSpagno]

Kirk Merrington in Kerrville Texas is the man for the job. British trained and a barrel specialist. A complete gentleman to deal with and knows British guns inside and out.

[Brian Dudley]

These are the type of guns that usually when encountered are in sad overall condition. It is great to see an example that has survived to remain as nice at it is.

[Mark Ray]

Mark that's a real beauty have you fired it yet? Given the weight not much push I bet. I assume very tight chokes. I intend to take my parker 10 out and pattern the barrels both 28" and 32" tubes before I go after the turkeys. Did I tell you I dropped 7 doves with it on the last week of season. used 28' barrels and 1 1/8 oz loads. Hammers are a bear to cock but triggers are light so minute I saw doves I cocked both barrels to be ready. Hope we get to chase turkeys together like last year. So glad you got to use the little Ambassador reel on a big red a real rush to catch big fish with only your thumb!!!

Thanks David,

The gun has one round out of it by my hand. I ALWAYS have a gun on the TV tray next to my big chair in the family room. Usually it is the newest pup in the litter, or one I’m polling my pals about currently. Robin’s recent comment is that the gun d’jour is my redneck fidget spinner.

When I decided to photograph and more closely examine this gun subsequent to our conversation the other day, it took its place on my table (and is still there for now until I run this chamber length deal down). I had an RST short 10 there that I had used to make certain the gun was a 10, and yesterday morning my dogs started raising hell out back, I looked out and there was a possum walking down the fence line oblivious to the two vizslas barking and growling a foot away, obviously he was rabid or sick. SO, 1 1/8th oz of 7 1/2’s later, he was off to possum heaven. The guy I bought the gun from said that he ahot a few cases of hot 12 gauge trap loads from this gun using chamber mates. And also shot several boxes of RST pigeon loads. 12 gauge 1 1/4 , 3 3/4 dram nickel loads, and had no issues.

[Rick Losey]

Thanks David,

The gun has one round out of it by my hand. I ALWAYS have a gun on the TV tray next to my big chair in the family room. Usually it is the newest pup in the litter, or one I’m polling my pals about currently. Robin’s recent comment is that the gun d’jour is my redneck fidget spinner.

When I decided to photograph and more closely examine this gun subsequent to our conversation the other day, it took its place on my table (and is still there for now until I run this chamber length deal down). I had an RST short 10 there that I had used to make certain the gun was a 10, and yesterday morning my dogs started raising hell out back, I looked out and there was a possum walking down the fence line oblivious to the two vizslas barking and growling a foot away, obviously he was rabid or sick. SO, 1 1/8th oz of 7 1/2’s later, he was off to possum heaven. The guy I bought the gun from said that he ahot a few cases of hot 12 gauge trap loads from this gun using chamber mates. And also shit several boxes of RST pigeon loads. 12 gauge 1 1/4 , 3 3/4 dram nickel loads, and had no issues.


that must be one big sturdy TV tray :shock: