Pinned stock head

[Chuck Bishop]

Well, I guess Parker would do just about anything if a customer asked for it!

[Reggie Bishop]

My hat is off to you for being able to decipher those books! The handwriting is beautiful but I can't read it!

[Daryl Corona]

Is there a s/n associated with that repair?

[JAMES HALL]

And it only cost 1.50

[JAMES HALL]

87285 ser.no.

[Dean Romig]

We've seen similar entries in the past... two others that I remember.





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[Daryl Corona]

I'd love to see the job done by the factory. It would be neat if that gun was available for pics. by a member as I have a repaired stock that was done very nicely and always wondered who did such a nice job on it.

[davidboyles]

I have a friend with a beautiful DHE 20 ga with 30" barrels and a pinned stock with an inlaid beautifully engraved escheon that looks like factory could have done. Does not detract from gun's appearance at all.

[scott kittredge]

I'd love to see the job done by the factory. It would be neat if that gun was available for pics. by a member as I have a repaired stock that was done very nicely and always wondered who did such a nice job on it.

me too, I have one on a 10 ga 2 frame EH

[Dave Suponski]

We have seen factory pinned stock heads. There is no mistaking it for factory work. I think I have a photo around here somewhere.

[Dean Romig]

Here's one that could easily be a factory job.


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[Chuck Bishop]

Dave and Dean, send me the S/N's and I'll see what the records say.

[John Davis]

Letter from Parker Bros. to R. L. Keeney, Somersville, Connecticut, February 4, 1911:

“We are in receipt of yours of the 1st, also gun, which we have examined and find what you describe as a swelling of the stock is in reality due to the fact that the stock is split in the head. This was caused by some strain or blow at some time. We could repair this temporarily by putting a screw or bolt through the head of the stock, bring it up to its original location, and this would cost about $2.00. To clean and repair action would cost about $2.50, rebrown barrels $5.00 and to reblue all the iron parts $2.50. This would put your gun in practically as good condition as new. We would be very glad to do any part or all of this work which you might order. The most satisfactory way to repair the stock would be to put on an entirely new one, which would cost $13.00 net. We have set your gun to one side and will await your further instructions before doing anything with it.”

[chris dawe]

Well that does it Dudley ...now we got to figure out how to pin stock heads as they were done originally:D..its a never ending challenge:whistle:

[Brian Dudley]

Just more fuel for the “might be factory” fire.

But we can surely say that wooden dowels or square headed bolts still are not factory.

I know, can you imagine someone restocking a gun because it was pinned and then they find the records say it was pinned and then they regret replacing it.

[Dean Romig]

That's one reason we should always save the original stocks when we have them replaced.





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[wayne goerres]

That's a really cool repair.

[Jean Swanson]

When the team of PGCA members copied the records in Ilion , my partner Dr. Rozier , pointed out numerous guns that were sent back to the factory for stock head repair for a fee of $2.00.

I ,over the years, have owned/seen many Parkers that were repaired at the stock head never knowing if it was a factory product or that of a gun smith. I can also say there were jobs that one obviously were NOT factory.

Allan

[Todd Poer]

Bigger question is why are cracked stocks happening even when the guns were relatively young. Is it frame issue to wood ratio, american walnut material and straight grains, guns being overloaded or dropped, hard use. Hard to say but doesn't seem to be from oil soaked wood. Is it because boxlocks remove too much material. I have seen more cracked or repaired stocks with the 12 gauge then others but that is just eye test are there just as many 16 and 20 gauge gun stocks that are damaged. Here and now I guess it doesn;t matter too much since there are repair and replace options to the funiture, just wondering out loud.

Obviously pinning repair was considered industry best practice at the time instead if not the replacement of stock, which is the best. Hard to argue $1.50 to $13, with $13 being a quarter to third of the value of the gun at time, grade dependent.

I will have to say whoever pinned that gun, that was the best looking pinning job I have ever seen. Heck I think Merkel on some guns has a pin or what looks like a pin on their boxlock guns from day one and doesn't look near that good.

[Paul Harm]

I've seen some stocks Brad has pinned and if you didn't know ahead of time that they were pinned you'd have trouble seeing it.

[John Campbell]

Bigger question is why are cracked stocks happening even when the guns were relatively young. Is it frame issue to wood ratio, american walnut material and straight grains, guns being overloaded or dropped, hard use...

I hate being devil's advocate, but yes. All of the above. English walnut helps mitigate this as on D Grades and above.

Most pin jobs will be found on black walnut stocks of the lower grades. But if done competently, they appear to hold. Notice I didn't say "attractively."

[Dean Romig]

I remember one research letter that documented the order of a new gun specifying that the stock head be pinned before shipping.





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[Todd Poer]

I remember one research letter that documented the order of a new gun specifying that the stock head be pinned before shipping.





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That is interesting. Somebody knew something or just wanted extra strength just because. I guess the ones that aren't split out by now that are in decent shape will probably still hold up okay, or not. The new way they fix them now with staple and epoxy if not restocking probably works pretty well.

My dad just picked a up 12 ga vh shooter that had a dowel fixing a split. He went in and did the staple fix and gun stock is tight. Gun shoots great as well. Shot it a few times on some clays, and it shoots where you look.

[Dale Medders]

How would you rate this pin job? There is some engraving on the parts I just cant capture it on my camera.
How much would this depreciate the value of this gun?
http://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/53358_800x600.jpg (http://www.jpgbox.com/page/53358_800x600/)
http://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/53359_800x600.jpg (http://www.jpgbox.com/page/53359_800x600/)
http://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/53360_800x600.jpg (http://www.jpgbox.com/page/53360_800x600/)
http://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/53361_600x400.jpg (http://www.jpgbox.com/page/53361_600x400/)
http://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/53361_600x400.jpg (http://www.jpgbox.com/page/53361_600x400/)

[charlie cleveland]

i would think it being a good shooter gun that it would not detract in my opinion...charlie

[Rich Anderson]

I have a VHE 16ga skeet gun that the stock has been pinned. It looks like an ivory or pearl diamond. Never had any problems with it.

[Dave Suponski]

The picture posted by Dale in my opinion shows a factory pinned stock head

[Dean Romig]

I have a VHE 16ga skeet gun that the stock has been pinned. It looks like an ivory or pearl diamond. Never had any problems with it.


Hmmm... makes me wonder about Brother McCormack's A-grade small bore Parker.

Kevin, do you know if this was simply a really attractive embellishment or could the stock head be pinned?

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[Todd Poer]

I guess the crux as to the reason and timing for employing the pin is what makes a difference. If there is stock damage and the pin is there for that purpose then the overall gun value is effected due to the stigma of the damage. The pin is just indicative of curing the problem. I think that has more impact to value then the pinning if done competently. We saw some good examples of pinning do we actually have any examples of known guns that were pinned by Parker that are still floating around to know how they did it. That one gun that had scroll work done on pin, was that done by Parker or some other very competent gunsmith. Also the gun that had the ivory did you see nay other damage or was it just that pin which might be decoration or a cover.

My take is If the pinning was employed for super-adequacy purposes or decoration and there is no indicated damage to stock or gun then that should not impact value, technically speaking. In this case someone may or may not pay anything extra for the pins but might not discount the gun due to condition or wear unless on closer examination. That might be a personal taste issue.

[scott kittredge]

here is my pinned stock, what do you think? looks the same on both sides and I took the stock off I found no cracks. it's on a 1889 2 frame EH 10 ga.

[Dean Romig]

It sure is a professional job Scott - definitely good enough to be factory work.





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[Rich Anderson]

Dean my gun looks a lot like Kevin's regarding the shape of the inlay only much smaller. I'm assuming it hides a pin.

[Dean Romig]

Got pictures Rich?





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[Todd Poer]

So it would appear some stocks were pinned as precaution with no damage, and some after the some damage. I think this suggests that just because it has a pin then it may or may not be because of damage and hence maybe has a preventive hedge against any stock damage. Would someone pay extra for that? I am guessing not but its just an added amenity and maybe just makes a bit unique.

[Dave Suponski]

I agree with Dean.

[Bob Brown]

I'll have to check and see if I still have it, but I think I have one that looks just like Dale's. Where are you from, Dale? Mine is a Canadian Parker. It would be quite a coincidence if Parkers from wide ranging geographic areas had identical repairs unless they were factory.

[Dale Medders]

I'll have to check and see if I still have it, but I think I have one that looks just like Dale's. Where are you from, Dale? Mine is a Canadian Parker. It would be quite a coincidence if Parkers from wide ranging geographic areas had identical repairs unless they were factory.

I am from AZ. The guy I bought it from was from Montana.
I saw him today and he said he might have a Letter for it.
So I'll see if he does before I order one.
I will also check the work order list.
Dale

[Bob Brown]

I checked the one with the pin like your's, Dale. It's 94393, a straight grip GH, but looks like a replacement stock. The pin repair was like your's and this CH that Patrick Lien posted for sale last month. Patrick's has brass where mine and your's are steel. It would be interesting to see one that letters as original or a factory repair. The CH pin has more engraving.
http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=22958

[Dale Medders]

I checked the one with the pin like your's, Dale. It's 94393, a straight grip GH, but looks like a replacement stock. The pin repair was like your's and this CH that Patrick Lien posted for sale last month. Patrick's has brass where mine and your's are steel. It would be interesting to see one that letters as original or a factory repair. The CH pin has more engraving.
http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=22958

Thanks,
Can you post a picture of yours?
Dale

[Bob Brown]

Here are a few pictures, but since the stock isn't original they don't mean much.
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=806&pictureid=9908
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=806&pictureid=9909

[Paul Harm]

I hate to say it, but all the guns with a screw look like sh!!. The stock can be clamped shut, and a headless screw like a 4/40 be installed with glue or now a days epoxy on it. It doesn't go all the way through so only one side is showing. If it's set down in a bit, some wood or epoxy can be put over it. With a little die and scratching one has trouble even seeing the repair. It can even sometimes be done where the wood goes up in the action so nothing shows. JMHO. I even had a 1894 Remington someone had done like this and I never saw it for two years, and I'm only half blind.

[allen newell]

My grandfathers and dads 16 vh had a brass pin through the head. No pictures of it though as it had to be restocked. Had DelGrego do it about 8 yrs ago and the stock waz in such bad shape i did nit keep it. I think though that my dad said that parker put it in

[charlie cleveland]

my old 8 ga i got from mills has more stock fixings than any gun i ve ever seen...first it had nails drove in it then a solid sheet of copper around it with nails thru the copper plate then someone put wrapped copper wire around the wrist area and really done well...then they soilered it all to gether with lead....then i added a water hose clamp...all still holding welland still shooting.....if they were giving out first places for the worst stock on any parker this old 8 would win hands down...charlie

[Dean Romig]

And that custom raised flat rib would win a prize for ingenuity!!





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[charlie cleveland]

dean you are right on its a piece of 1/2 inch iron with lots of siver soilder under it....charlie

[Dean Romig]

I just happen to have a few pics of the gun Charlie.


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[John Davis]

Charlie's gun proves that these guns were made to be shot and to put meat on the table. And his gun obviously has done a whole lot of both. Boy if it could talk!

[charlie cleveland]

thanks for the pictures dean...this old gal has seen rough times but shell still shoot...the hammers cock and hold good as new ones all i done was clean them...this shows how well a parker was made... charlie

[Mark Ray]

Now THAT is a Smoke Pole!!

[tom tutwiler]

Here's an AE Fox circa 1918. Ivory perhaps or Pearl or whatever. No idea who might have done it. It is the original stock.

https://i.imgur.com/RrLToxg.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/qqo17RQ.jpg