Anyone recognize this case coloring?

[John Nagel]

Hoping to find out who did this case coloring so I can have the floor plate of this gun done to a close match.

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=714&pictureid=9819

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=714&pictureid=9818

[Jim DiSpagno]

Looks like cyanide cc so Del Greco would seem the likely Smith. They keep pretty good records so call and ask if they did work on that D grade

[Reggie Bishop]

It may be cyanide, and if it is its the nicest I have seen. It looks good! Especially the top picture.

[Garth Gustafson]

Sure looks like it could be Del Grego's work. Here is my VH with cyanide colors. Larry Del Grego told me the work was done in his shop. Some of Del Grego's early work is like comparing a flashy Italian suit to Brooks Brothers.

[Dean Romig]

It's about the darkest cyanide job I've seen - attractive and not glaring like most.





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[Chris Travinski]

Search around for some work done by Ron's gun shop in Oshkosh,Wi.

[Paul Ehlers]

That one may have been done by Color Case Company in Ohio. They did a fairly nice job of cyanide coloring back in the day. Unfortunately they went out of business several years ago.

I'm not sure if you could just get the floor plate done using the traditional bone hardening process. I'd be afraid the plate would warp from the heat if it wasn't attached to the frame in the process.

[Brian Dudley]

That is cyanide. I cannot say if it looks like Delgregos work.

If you want to match THOSE colors, you may be in for a hard time. Delgrego
No longer does cyanide coloring. They farm their coloring out to Turnbull these days so you are getting a quality bone charcoal job from them. Last i heard, Rons Gun Shop was not coloring anymore.

The colors on the gun currently are not correct. If the trigger plate needs to be recolored, i would recommend recoloring the whole frame properly so that it looks factory correct.

As i understand, you are doing a SST to DT conversion. If it is a Parker SST, you shouldnt have to alter the trigger plate to the point of NEEDING recoloring.

[John Nagel]

It won't NEED recolorong but I was hoping to replace ducks with a commemoration of my setter. I don't care much for ducks on an upland gun.

[Brian Dudley]

I recommend recoloring the whole thing then. The rest of the frame and engraving looks to be in great shape. The amount of prep work to recolor and additional cost will be minimal. And the end result will be far more worth it.

[Bruce Day]

I am not aware that the Del Grego shop ever did case coloring by any method. They neither had the room, equipment or expertise.

I am aware that the Del Grego gunsmithing ship would strip frames, polish the metal , and take metal parts to be color case hardened to an industry shop in the Ilion area which did that type of work for a variety of industries in the area. I have no direct knowledge of the above but was told this by the Del Grego shop. Thus when the shop says or implies “we did” it’s more accurate that “ we took it to ——-“.

My knowledge dates from the 1980’s on. I do not know what contractor or industrial shop did the Del Grego requested case color work in the 1950’s to the 70’s. I don’t know the name of the shop but was told by Lawrence that it was a couple miles from their home workshop.

[Dean Romig]

So did Remington Arms in Ilion farm their case hardening work to this shop?
I ask this because several long time Parker people have told me that Babe would take these parts to Remington for this work after Babe had left Remington's employ.





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[allen newell]

Dean, that 16 ga vh of mine that youve handled was restocked and case colored by DelGrego about 6 or 7 yrs ago. Maybe longer. Their case colors on the bottom side of the frame did not wear well and the underside is practically clear now. Im wondering if this was a cynanide job and do cynanide colors not hold their colors as well as other case coloring processes. Im tempted to send the frame to Brad Bachelder and have Brad recolor it. His colors have stood up well on my other parkers that hes done for me

[Garth Gustafson]

Allen, I've been told the cyanide case colors are more durable than traditional bone/charcoal and they tend to last longer. Cyanide colos typically are more intense for sure. The floor plate of my VH looks like a tequila sunrise.

[allen newell]

Garth, dont know what to say except that the colors on the underside of the frame on tbis 16 are nearly gone and i did not do anything different with this gun in handling than any of my other parkers. Colors have remained strong on all others and they all are used. I cant explain it.

[edgarspencer]

I am not aware that the Del Grego shop ever did case coloring by any method. They neither had the room, equipment or expertise.

I have heard this stated before, and partly because of my metallurgical background, I am inclined to believe it is correct. I spent quite a bit of time with engineers from Colt Industries, at their West Hartford, CT plant, developing cast steel (CA6NM) heat treating boxes, and their plant metallurgist said they would never consider replacing the carbon based packed boxes with cyanide salt because of the environmental and safety concerns handling the salts. There was a Heat treat shop in Hartford that did cyanide packed heat treating, and they went out of business when the state DEP mandated closed-capture exhaust systems for all their furnaces.

[Kevin McCormack]

[QUOTE=Dean Romig;233873]So did Remington Arms in Ilion farm their case hardening work to this shop?
I ask this because several long time Parker people have told me that Babe would take these parts to Remington for this work after Babe had left Remington's employ.

To my knowledge Babe never worked for Remington. His father, Larry Sr., one of the original Parker Bros. Meriden employees, retired from Remington in 1955 and opened his own shop when they made the decision to no longer repair Parker guns. When Babe mustered out of the Air Force in 1958 he joined his father in the business.

In 1960 Larry Sr. cut a deal with Remington to purchase their entire inventory of parts for the Parker gun along with several specialty machines that had been surplused as obsolete by Remington after cessation of Parker gun production in 1947 (e.g., rib matting and automatic ejector setup jigs among others). After this time, Remington referred all inquiries on repair of the Parker gun to the Del Gregos.

Their very early case coloring work was most likely done by Frank Lefever in Herkimer NY, the next town over to the west of Ilion towards Utica. When Lefever closed his business, rumor had it that the case coloring work was contracted out to a specialty metals firm in northern New Jersey, who did the work for years (probably up through the late 1990s/early 2000s). The option of having Turnbull's do the case coloring for a customer desiring so was a comparatively very late development in the relationship between the two firms.

A considerable amount of work on restored guns coming out of Del Grego's was done by artisans employed by Remington in the Custom Shop on an "after hours" basis. Leo Bala, a master engraver in there, did much of the intricate checkering work on the highest grade guns and of course Bob Runge, retired master engraver, routinely did the standard re-engraving patterns on restored guns along with their wonderful upgrades.

When I took my first Parker gun to Del Grego's for a total restoration in 1969, one of the first things I noticed was the complete lack of equipment, materials and process controls (e.g., furnaces, tanks, etc.) for metal reconditioning and restoration of any kind, all of which to my knowledge were done elsewhere.

[Dean Romig]

My apologies Kevin, and others, for erroneously naming Babe instead of Larry Sr. I know better.





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[Brian Dudley]

Kevin,
Was the NJ firm Heinzelman (spelling)?

[Kevin McCormack]

Brian, I never heard the name of the NJ outfit - they were always very secretive about where the guns went for recoloring.

[Kevin McCormack]

BTW, the "next town over" alluded to by Del Gregos was in fact Frankfurt NY, not Herkimer as I previously stated. That is where Frank Lefever's shop was. Herkimer is actually slightly northeast of Ilion across the canal less than a half mile from Ilion.

[John Nagel]

So bottom line no one is doing this sort of cyanide case color today?

[Bill Murphy]

I have always sent my checks to Lefever in Lee Center, New York. I have no idea whether it is near Ilion, Herkimer, or New York City, even though I have been to all three places. Kevin is right. Babe has never worked for Remington as far as I know. Further, I have never seen a Del Grego gun with screws as bad as the pictured gun. I think we should lay off trying to identify guns worked on by the Del Grego shop. The knowledge base is getting thinner by the year.

[edgarspencer]

So bottom line no one is doing this sort of cyanide case color today?

Perhaps not on the limited scale gunsmiths might generate, but it is still used in production heat treating where the numbers of parts hardened are high, and thus the process is more easy to control, i.e. environmental containment.

[John Nagel]

I have always sent my checks to Lefever in Lee Center, New York. I have no idea whether it is near Ilion, Herkimer, or New York City, even though I have been to all three places. Kevin is right. Babe has never worked for Remington as far as I know. Further, I have never seen a Del Grego gun with screws as bad as the pictured gun. I think we should lay off trying to identify guns worked on by the Del Grego shop. The knowledge base is getting thinner by the year.

Hey what's wrong with my screws??

[Dean Romig]

I think we should lay off trying to identify guns worked on by the Del Grego shop. The knowledge base is getting thinner by the year.


I agree Bill. I see so many horrible third rate back-yard refinished guns on Internet sites that are purportedly "Delgrecko" or "DelGrego" work but they have no documentation and it must be a huge embarrassment to the Del Grego family. Del Grego Parkers are distinctive and are not easily copied.





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[Garth Gustafson]

Hey what's wrong with my screws??

Nothing wrong with yours. They are referring to mine. They were probably boogered after the restoration.

[Bill Murphy]

The pictures of the "bad screws" were on another thread. Sorry about that. Nothing wrong with any screws on this thread.