Recently aquired a DHE

[Wendy Bonertz]

I am new to the world of Parker Brother's Guns and enjoying it very much so far. I was very excited to find this site! My husband and I picked up a DHE at auction last week and I am trying to find out as much as I can about it. Value, history, and anything else I can find out! I will be sending for a research letter right away.
Any help anyone can give would be wonderful!

I have been doing a little looking around and comparing, and have noticed that our DHE does not say titanic steel or anything else for that matter on the barrel rib. Most of the ones I have seen on this site do. Is it common to not have that on the rib?

There are lots of proof marks etc under the barrels that we can't see very well or photograph because we can not seem to remove the barrels. They seem loose enough after removing the forend but will not detach. Anyone have any suggestions?
We have located a gunsmith that says he is familiar with Parkers..... so we may go that route if need be.

I have taken lots of pictures and will post a few. I am still trying to figure out percentage of case colors, condition of everything and ????? Kind of confused but I am enjoying the ride so far. :D

http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy225/RWB09/Parker/IMG_3103.jpg

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[Dean Romig]

Hello Wendy and welcome to the PGCA.

It looks like the serial number on the trigger guard tang reads 227443 and if this is the case the book shows it to have been made with a capped pistol grip which, obviously, is not the case. I've seen the style of engraving that yours displays on the barrel breech and I don't think it is "Parker" and perhaps someone else can offer an opinion as to who made those barrels. It is also shown to be a twenty gauge with 28" barrels but having been replaced at some time, they may or may not be 28" today.

We caution you about this smith who "says he is familiar with Parkers."
Please tell us where you are so that we can recommend someone who we know is a Parker expert. The problem you are experiencing is known to many of us and it is perplexing, frustrating, and repair should not be attempted by just any smith.

Incidentally, you have a very desirable Parker in very nice condition and it is worth a bunch of money despite the replacement barrels. Please show us some pictures of the whole gun.

Good luck to you.

[Pete Lester]

I think the serno is 227448. Anybody got their book handy?

[Marc Retallack]

#227448- 12ga Grade 3, straight grip, ejectors, 28" Titianic steel barrels

[Greg Baehman]

The serial number does appear to be 227448 as Pete stated. The book says it is a DHE 12-ga. with 28" Titanic steel barrels and a straight grip.

[Pete Lester]

The serial number does appear to be 227448 as Pete stated. The book says it is a DHE 12-ga. with 28" Titanic steel barrels and a straight grip.


Helps to have 23" monitor and reading glasses :)

[Bill Murphy]

You have to tell us where you are and show us a picture of the rib. The little bit of rib we can see is not from the Parker factory. The gun appears to be rebarrelled, but a better picture would comfirm that. One quick fix for the inability to take the gun apart is to fire the gun, empty. If the barrels don't come off, cock and fire the gun again. Often that will free the cocking slide to remove the barrels. When you get the barrels off, lubricate the cocking slide to help free it up. Don't worry about how to identify the cocking slide until you get the barrels off. Post pictures of the bottom of the breech end of the barrels when you get them off.

[Wendy Bonertz]

Thanks so much for the quick responses and the info!

Sorry I should have included this info in my first post! The serial number is 227448, it is a 12 guage, the barrels are 28" and was told the barrels are belgian nitro proofed. As near as I can tell the gun was made in 1927 or 1928. (two sources, two dates)

I live in Alberta, Canada nearest large city would be Calgary. If you know of a gunsmith anywhere in Alberta that would be fantastic. We are also not far from the Montana border. Not sure of the regs regarding cross border transport etc but I know it can be done with proper permits etc so that may be an option as well.

The picture I have of the barrels and rib do not show the rib very well. I will take some more today and post them. I will try again to remove the barrels following Bill's advice and if successful will have more pics to add.

There is a small rust spot on the butt plate and I am wondering if it is ok to rub it with a little oil? As you can tell I do not know alot about these or any other older shotguns and I would like to do things correctly.

I really appreciate the help!

[Bob Brown]

Wendy, I was at that auction last week. Nice gun, but the Belgian made replacement barrels were the reason I didn't keep bidding on it. The cocking hook was not releasing the barrels, though in the quick look I took the slide didn't seem to be binding. If I had it in hand I would use a curved dental pick to reach in and push the hook back. I live near High Level, Alberta, so I'm a fair distance away.
In my opinion the best gunsmith for doubles in Alberta is Dave Henry in Bentley. The company name is D.Henry Gunmakers. If you don't know Bentley it is between, and a little west, of Red Deer and Edmonton. He is British trained, but he has worked on a few of my Parkers and I was very happy with the result. Welcome to the world of Parkers.

[Wendy Bonertz]

Hi again everyone, Thanks to Bill Murphy's tip the barrels are now off and pictures have been taken. I hope they are clear enough.
Thanks to Bob Brown for the tip about the gunsmith here in Alberta.
I realize that this gun may not be particularly valuable but I am enjoying the
hunt for info and I am hoping for a shootable gun no matter the monetary value!

Thanks again everyone!!

http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy225/RWB09/Parker/IMG_3203.jpg

http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy225/RWB09/Parker/IMG_3187.jpg

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[Wendy Bonertz]

Sorry, couple more pics I forgot to post......

and a question about the best way to treat the little spot of rust on the butt plate. Dont want to use the wrong thing. Suggestions?
Thanks again...
Wendy

http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy225/RWB09/Parker/IMG_3118.jpg

http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy225/RWB09/Parker/IMG_3106.jpg

[Dean Romig]

Have you sent for a research letter on this gun? You may find out who CDD is through the letter.

Best way to treat the rust spot on the skeleton steel buttplate is to very carefully remove it from the stock using the correct turnscrews (as discussed many times on this forum) and have it professionally treated and (at your discretion) possibly reblued. Treating the rust spot while the buttplate is still on the stock is to invite possible damage to the original wood finish.

[George Lander]

Hello Wendy: As Dean and Bill pointed out, your Parker would be much more valuable if you still had the original barrels (the barrels that you have are definitely from Liege Belgium see the "lg" on the barrel flats), but you still have a very valuable gun. It was not uncommon after Parker ceased production for a gun to be sent to Belgium for rebarreling. I would certainly order a research letter from PGCA. It may tell you who the original consignee was and possibly the original owner, all the pertainent measurements and perhaps a lead on where the original barrels now reside.

Best Regards and Welcome, George

[Richard Flanders]

Regardless of who made the bbls, that is a very nice looking D grade. Great wood. I'm surprised you didn't keep bidding Bob! I coulda used it on geese this fall!

[Wendy Bonertz]

Well I am glad that Bob didn't keep bidding! It allowed me to get a Parker at a price I could afford! lol Thanks Bob!! Sorry about your goose hunting Richard....
My husband and I know alot more about rifles than we do about shotguns, but I have been looking at older double barrels, drillings etc for quite awhile now so was very happy to find this one! I think my husband is afraid though that this may only be the beginning..........

I am going to send for a letter and see what info that brings to the table.

Is there anything I should know before taking it out in the field?
Anything I need to be careful of, are certain types of shells, shot etc better in these guns? normal or reduced loads?

My husband thinks the 70/12 on the barrel flats indicates 70mm or 2 3/4" length shells, is this correct?

I know I am being a bother with all my questions but I would like to do things properly the first time around rather than botch it up.

Thanks for all your help!!
Wendy

[David Hamilton]

Yes, that is the european designation for 70 mm or 2 3/4" chambers and 12 gauge. David

[Bob Brown]

It's a pretty light gun, Richard. More suited to grouse than geese. A very nice straight grip, and it is as good as the pictures show. I am curious about the frame size. 1 or 1 1/2 I would guess. Wendy, would you measure the distance between the firing pin holes from center to center? We should be able to tell you the frame size with that.
Wendy, I usually use Winchester AA low recoil/low noise for grouse. I find they're all I need and easy on the wood. It sounds like you might live in pheasant and sharptail country. There are a lot of guys on this board that could give you better advice than I for those birds. Oh, and your husband is right to be afraid. One old quality double is too many, and 100 aren't enough.
Richard, are you going to make it down to Debolt this year? Trigg was figuring around the end of the first week of October? Should be fun, I hope you can make it.

[Richard Flanders]

I am hoping to meet him in Minnesota and drive back west and north with him. Depends when it freezes up here at the mine.

[Bob Brown]

We should meet up on your way back. There will likely still be some geese around in mid October.

[Wendy Bonertz]

It's a pretty light gun, Richard. More suited to grouse than geese. A very nice straight grip, and it is as good as the pictures show. I am curious about the frame size. 1 or 1 1/2 I would guess. Wendy, would you measure the distance between the firing pin holes from center to center? We should be able to tell you the frame size with that.


From center to center of the firing pin holes is 1.1 inches


Thanks for all your help gentlemen!

Wendy

[Jim Akins]

Wendy, the barrels on your Parker were made and fitted by Manufacture Leguoise De Armes in Belgium and were proofed in 1949. Armaf Dagun was a trade names used by them, if you look on the barrels between the flats and the forend lug you should see a crown over ML, that was their trade mark. I have a set similar to yours that are from 1954. I recall that Atlas Arms offered this service around that time. They also sold unfitted barrels made in Italy that were much lower in quality that are encountered, they were marked Vickers Steel. The ML barrels while not Parker are high quality.

Jim A.

[Bill Murphy]

Jim's observation is the same as mine. I have looked at many Atlas barrels and some are very nicely made, others are not so nice. As long as I am giving advice, here goes. If your gun is working well, there is no reason to get professional help. It is a rare "gunsmith" who can improve on a working Parker by disassembling it for cleaning and lubrication, especially an ejector gun as yours is.

[Wendy Bonertz]

Hello again everyone,
Bill Murphy said that if I measured the distance between the firing pin centers that someone could probably tell me the frame size of my gun but I think my post was lost at the bottom of page 2! :) If anyone can tell me what the frame size is I would appreciate it.

From center to center of the firing pin holes is 1.1 inches

Thanks

[Robin Lewis]

Take a look at this link, I hope it answers your questions.

http://parkerguns.org/pages/faq/Framesize.htm

[Dean Romig]

Wendy, the measurements, in order to be precise as did Parker Bros. when they made your gun, must be in sixteenths of an inch - so, instead of telling us 1.1 inches it could be either 1 1/16" or 1 1/8" but you need to tell us exactly which it is.

[Wendy Bonertz]

The measurement as close as I can tell without calipers that measure in
16ths of an inch would be 1 1/8". So if I read the info correctly that would make it a 1 frame?? The info is a little confusing because it says 1 1/4 or 1 2/16 is a 2 frame but those two measurements are definately not the same! I think there is a typo there.
Mine is 1 2/16 so I think that means it is a 1 frame.....

[Steve Huffman]

1 2/16 = 1 1/8 :whistle:

[Dean Romig]

With that late of a serial number it is very unlikely to be a 1-frame twelve gauge.

[Wendy Bonertz]

Back in the dark ages when I went to school 1 1/8" = 1 2/16"

but that is not what it said on the FAQ page. Typo......

[Wendy Bonertz]

With that late of a serial number it is very unlikely to be a 1-frame twelve gauge.

Well, the ruler I was using put it at 1 1/8" or even slightly less. I wish I had a more precise measuring tool than a plastic ruler. The caliper I used though, said 1.1" exactly so it should not be more than 1 1/8" I don't think... ??? Would the frame size be included in the information in the research letter? I have sent for one...

[Robin Lewis]

Wendy,

Thanks for doing the proof read of the FAQ, its been wrong a long time!

The frame size is the number of 1/16th of an inch above one inch. So, your gun is 1 and 2/16 inches... therefore a #2 frame.

[Larry Frey]

If Wendy measured 1.1 than it's likely the actual measurement was 1.125 or 1 1/8" making the gun a one frame.

[Dave Suponski]

Larry, 1 frame gun's are 1.060 or 1 1/16"....:whistle:

[Steve Huffman]

Serialization book has frame size 1 as 1 1/6 frame size 1 1/2 as 1 1/8, frame size 2 as 1 1/8 may need some different measurements from the bolsters or standing breech.

[Larry Frey]

Larry, 1 frame gun's are 1.060 or 1 1/16"....:whistle:

Dave,
You are most likely correct. I looked at the info on the link Robin posted which said an O frame was 1" and to add 1/16th for each step up in size. That would put a 1/2 frame at 1 1/16" and a 1 frame at 1 1/8". Sorry for the mix up. I think the info on that link needs to be clarified.

[Dave Suponski]

Larry, 1/2 frame and 1 frame guns have the same firing pin spacing. That could be where the confusion sets in.

[Bill Murphy]

No, it would not be in the information included in the PGCA letter. It is really not that important. When you can get an exact measurement, let us know. In the meantime, just enjoy your gun.

[Dean Romig]

Aw c'mon Bill.... I wanted to keep :dh:

[Wendy Bonertz]

Dave,
You are most likely correct. I looked at the info on the link Robin posted which said an O frame was 1" and to add 1/16th for each step up in size. That would put a 1/2 frame at 1 1/16" and a 1 frame at 1 1/8". Sorry for the mix up. I think the info on that link needs to be clarified.

That is the way I read the info on the site as well. So if two of us read it that way and it is not correct then perhaps some clarification of the info would be a good idea. We could all stop flogging that poor animal!

Thanks everyone for your help in uhhh....clarifying?? this issue for me! :banghead:

Wendy :bigbye: