1906 PSI for 16ga loads?

[Dale Medders]

I have several Damascus barreled 12ga SXS's I have always loaded my shells at 5800 psi.
I have recently acquired a 16ga Parker GH made in 1906 with Damascus barrels.

My pet load for my current steel barreled 16ga SXS's develops 9700 psi.
probably a bit too high for the Damascus gun.

It seems a lot of 16ga loads of current produce a lot more pressure than say 12 ga loads.

In 1906 what psi were 16 ga shells developing?
I use Rem SP hulls and I have a lot of 700X powder and it's damn hard to find any lower pressure loads. I am open to using another powder.
Yes, I have inquired on the 16 ga low pressure group and have no answers yet.
I can't seem to get an organized spread sheet from them as of yet.
Thank you,

[Eric Eis]

Go over to the 16gauge.com board. The guys over there can give you some good reloading recipes.

[Garth Gustafson]

Dale,
An option is to use commercially available shells from RST or Polywad. Here are 16 ga pressure loads from RST for their "Best Grade" 2-1/2" shells,

16 ga 2 1/2" Lite 1oz- 7000 Psi
16 ga 2 1/2" Spreader Lite 1 oz- 6500 Psi
16 ga 2 1/2" Falcon Lite 7/8 oz - 5800 Psi
16 ga 2 1/2" Ultra Lite 3/4 oz - 4800 Psi
The paper loads will be similar to their plastic counterparts but with 100-200 lower PSi's

[Drew Hause]

The gun was designed to shoot 2 9/16” shells with a service load of 1 oz. shot at 2 1/2 Dr. Eq. (1165 fps) with a pressure of Bulk Smokeless about 7000 psi; Dense 500-1000 psi higher. Maximum load was 1 oz. shot with 2 3/4 Dr. Eq. (1220 fps) at about 8500 psi with Bulk Smokeless; Dense very close to modern pressures.
Parker cut the chambers slightly short for use with roll crimp shells. What is the chamber length now?
Using 2 3/4" shells in a 2 1/2" chamber will raise the pressure 200 – 1200 psi
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZIo0y746UsSRZIgRuuxwAbZjSBHitO_EanvwLYc-kGA/edit

What load to use cannot be answered without knowing the wall thickness at the end of the chamber, 3”, 6”, 9”, 12" and 16".

[Phillip Carr]

Garth I have purchased RST shells in the past. Mainly 28 and 20 gauge. Pressure information is not listed. Can you get this information on the different shells if you call them?

[Garth Gustafson]

Phil,
Yes, that's how I got the information.
Cheers!

[Jerry VanHorn]

I have a GH 16 Damascus and a 16 top lever hammer. I called RST and talked with them them about loads. Their choice was the 16 Ultra Lite..3/4..Worked for me..

[Mark Landskov]

The RST 3/4 ounce 16 gauge load works just fine for Ruffed Grouse with 7-1/2 shot. Good Luck!

[Harold Lee Pickens]

If you are using Reminton hulls, 15.5 gr 20/28 with a DR16 wad and 7/8 oz lead makes a nice soft shooting load around 6000 psi and 1150 fps.

[Dale Medders]

Thanks Harold I did find that load and ordered some DR 16 wads from Gamaliel.

[Daryl Corona]

Dale;
Try try the load Harold listed and drop 3/4oz. You will love it. Less shot lowers pressure even more.

[Kenny Graft]

Graf and sons has them too. Can be hard to find. SXS Ohio

[Harold Lee Pickens]

I have pretty much gone to reloading 2 1/2" 16 ga hulls now. I use RST and Herters cheddite hulls that I cut down to 2 1/2. In those hulls I use the DR16 wad for nice 3/4 oz target loads and SG 16 for 7/8 oz loads. For 3/4 oz loads, I use International, and Universal and 7625 for 7/8 oz. I haven't loaded 1 oz loads for a while and just use factory Rems and Herters in fluid steel guns when I want 1 oz.
Go to Hogdons reloading site for good info, and if there is any forum that has taught me more than the PGCA forum, it is the 16 Ga Society reloading forum.
There are also many great load recipies in the PGCA reloading forum past threads on reloading for the 16 ga. Guys like John Campbell and Paul Harm have been very helpful.

[Paul Harm]

I personally like Claybuster wads. Their 7/8oz 16ga wad has pressures from 6200psi to 9500. Go here http://www.claybusterwads.com/index.php/product-by-gauge/by-gauge-16/159-cb0078-16-load-data Good luck

[Mark Garrett]

Those claybuster loads are exact copy of the DR16 wad loads off of Hodgdon site. The Cb wad is a great wad for the RGL hull but nut so much for Straight wall hulls where the DR wad is a better choice.

[Paul Harm]

I have limited experience with the 16ga but I believe all 16ga shells are straight walled. Also, over on another reloading forum the DR wad is thought to be inferior to the CB wad. It's been said that the cup part of the wad is too stiff. I'm just going by memory that isn't all that great, but when some of the guys have talked to the owner of DR he just ignores them. They claim when they had some suggestions to CB they were listened to and corrections were made. To each their own, but all I use are CBer wads and I'm very satisfied.

[William Davis]

I believe the DR 16 was designed by members of the 16 G forum who convinced Down Range to make them. Out of stock for a year, they made a run last winter and were available in quantity. Could be all have been sold. I bought 10,000 double what I need. It’s a good 3/4 and 7/8 oz wad in a straight wall hull. Others may be better, with so many on hand I’m sticking with DR. Real problem any 16 G load is poor hull quality & our preference for light shot loads.

William

[Harold Lee Pickens]

I think DR16 works great in RGL's for 7/8 and 3/4 oz loads, no problems for me. I load mostly 2 1/2" cheddite shells now, and the DR16 works great with 3/4 oz and International (Hogdon website). It does not work well with 7/8 oz loads in 2 1/2, so I use the SG 16 wad there, with Universal or 7625. I have not tried the new CB 16 wad for 7/8 oz, but have loaded some 1 oz loads using the original CB 1 oz wad.
I have loaded up all my short 16 hulls, and may start in on a bag of 300+ RGL's using the DR16. Just dont know if I want to mess with changing all my press adjustments. My 2 1/2' 16 crimps look great, but am also loading 2 1/2" 20's and although passable/shootable, the crimps suck compared to the 16's--just cant get it figured out.

[Dale Medders]

I got the DR16 hulls today. I loaded 2 boxes up and all is well. After loading 1 oz for years I can't wait to try these 7/8 oz loads. And no More cheerios to fill the hulls !!!
Load is:
Rem hull
20/28 powder 15.5 gr
Win 209 primer
DR16 wad
1105 fps
5760 psi

My Damascus Parker, LC Smith, Baker and a few other 16's will be happy also

[William Davis]

If you like 16 G 7/8 oz my guess is you will like 3/4 in 2 1/2 inch even more. I’m loaded both 7/8 in 2 3/4 & 3/4 in 2 1/2 and found I rarely used the 7/8 oz load. Like Harold I have settled on International and avoiding press changes is a big advantage.

William

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Yes, you and your guns will be impressed, I do tend to favor 7/8 oz, but often throw a mixed bunch of both in my pockets, and couldn't really tell any difference

[Paul Harm]

Dale, that 20/28 load looks great. I would think even a 16gr load would be very nice if one wanted a bit more velocity. Thanks for posting your load.

[Dale Medders]

Yes I am happy as I use 20/28 for 20 and 28 ga loading so I didn't have to come up with yet another powder to stock.
Now if I could just find a low or medium pressure recipe to use the 16ga Herter's hulls that maybe use a Win 209 primer. No Cheddite or Rio Primers on any store shelves here in AZ. and I don't care to pay hazmat fees.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Dale, others may disagree, but I substitute between WW209 and cheddite 209 all the time--but not between the hotter Fed209A or CCI 209A.

[William Davis]

I use Win 209s in Herters 16 g hulls. Not apples to apples but I have some Titewad 3/4 oz 12 G data in front of me. Cheddar primers show more pressure at the same velocity compared to Win 209 primers.

William

[Paul Harm]

William, how much more pressure ? Everything I've read claims there wouldn't be all that much difference in pressure between primers unless it was the Fed 209A or CCCI M. All the others should be pretty much the same.

[William Davis]

Paul it’s hard to say because the powder charge weights were not the same. Data shows Powder, TiteWad, 3/4 oz shot same Hull and wad, all listed as as 1150 FPS loads. Cheddite primers vs Win 209s. The Cheddites were shown with higher pressure for 1150 ft.

Marginally higher with Cheddite means to me I can substitute 209 for Cheddite with out risk. Get down to the detail it’s not a exact comparison. My 3/4 oz bushing throws a bit less than 3/4oz Powder bushing drops a bit less than recommended, & who knows if the published data is the result of exact testing. Ambient temp at testing will change pressures. From rifle loading I can say for sure different lots of the same brand powder will produce different pressure too.

It’s a moot point for me, Winchester 209 is the only primer I can buy without a HazMat fee.

William

[Rick Losey]

the best way to tell what you are shooting is to send three rounds to Tom Armbrust

cheap insurance - no guessing needed