Why I Hate Them

[Gary Laudermilch]

And love them at the same time. Well, there are other attributes I like about them but this picture is not one of them. The date/time stamp is wrong. It was taken this past Sunday, the day after the close of our rifle deer season closed. During deer season I heard more accounts of hunters seeing coyotes than I can ever remember hearing before.

[Dean Romig]

What's to love about coyotes?... Not one thing in my opinion!

And it's NOT because they're taking down a trophy buck!

They will kill and eat ANYTHING they can, including your best bird dog or your aging Lab let out just before bedtime to empty his bladder and sniff around the dooryard before coming in for the night. This happened to a good friend's 11 year old black lab - one of the best waterfowl dogs in Essex Co. a few years back.





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[Kent Nickerson]

Your picture reminded me of something I think about from time to time...two days ago I was in a climbing stand and a covey of birds gathered under me in the late afternoon sunshine. Eleven little beauties, very social, peeping and chasing each other about happily as they ate acorn fragments. These are my favorites among all the residents of my farm. Yesterday I took the dog and VH down there and shot two of them. Together with two more I got this morning they will go on the grill tonight and I am happy to have them. The coyotes Coopers Hawks and I have much in common. And I may be the worst of the bunch, having a grocery store just five miles up the road.

[Gary Laudermilch]

Dean, I do not disagree. I do love the fact that they are free, wild, and smart. But just so I do not get labeled a coyote lover, I'll shoot every one that gives me the opportunity.

This past summer I saw a trail camera photo of a coyote carrying what appeared to be a very dead Jack Russell terrier, collar and all. What's to love?

[Gerald McPherson]

I have 3 young friends that are true outdoors men, Very good deer and turkey hunters, The oldest about 19 was attacked this past spring by a coyote while turkey hunting. It slipped up from behind jumped over his shoulder and grabbed him by the leg cutting his leg. He grabbed it and threw it off and it ran before he could shoot. He had to take the rabies treatment. They will attack people also. This is the second time that I know of them attacking people.

[Mills Morrison]

One of my cousins and her husband were attacked by a coyote while they were turkey hunting. A good coyote is a dead coyote

[Reggie Bishop]

About 15 years ago when there were still wild quail on a farm I hunted here in SE Tennessee, my Setter and I were standing on the edge of a fence row in an overgrown field. Two coyotes came out of the brush across the way from us and I watched them as they hunted as a pair thru the overgrown fields of that farm. It was interesting to watch, they were way out of range of my 20 gauge, but I wondered, and still do, if they aren't part of the reason the quail population is all but gone in my area.

[Stephen Hodges]

I wonder if that buck had been wounded during the rifle season? I will bet he was. And if thats not wolf like hunting behavior i will eat my hat.

[Dean Romig]

Pure speculation Steve...

How would you like your hat done?





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[Bill Murphy]

Reggie, a coyote would not be out of range of a good 22-250 or 220 Swift. I don't know what the coyote situation is at my new home, but it won't be long before I find out.

[allen newell]

Two years ago while on a deer hunt locally here in Plymouth, Ma I was sitting on the ground waiting for the drivers to come down the hill. All of a sudden and without making any noise a very large coyote popped out in front of me. I shot it with my 50 cal. muzzleloader and dropped it in its tracks. When I walked over to it, my first thought was oh God, I just shot someone's German shepherd. Had all the coloration and size of a big dog but upon further inspection it was a confirmed coyote. I'd shoot every one. We have them run through our neighborhood frequently and a small dog was taken recently by coyotes. I don't let my setter outside without me being present for that reason.

[Daniel G Rainey]

over the years, I have called up several coyotes and killed them while turkey hunting. Once I saw a group split the yearling of the the doe and give it the run for its life. Coyotes lost. Have killed 2 so far this deer season.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Hope who ever took the picture had a gun with him, for two reasons first to kill off a few coyotes and to put that nice deer out of his misery! I personally shoot everyone I see or try to and my neighbors do the same but it does not seem to reduce the population much, Gary

[Robert Delk]

The coyotes are just doing like the rest of us and trying to stay alive. I like that they have really cleaned out the feral/barn cats around here.I am aware that they are known to take dogs and have attacked and killed at least one human being.

[Dean Romig]

Removing a few coyotes from the gene pool only serves to increase the number of cotote pups in a healthy local population. I have read studies on this. Unless you exterminate nearly the entire local population killing a few, even every one you see, their numbers will only increase to the level that their food sources allow.





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[Dave Noreen]

They will kill and eat ANYTHING they can, including your best bird dog or your aging Lab let out just before bedtime to empty his bladder and sniff around the dooryard before coming in for the night. This happened to a good friend's 11 year old black lab - one of the best waterfowl dogs in Essex Co. a few years back.



Cougars have done the same things in my neighborhood. Our neighborhood is full of Whitetails and that is the Cougars normal food. But, a dog is certainly a target of opportunity. When I was growing up there was a bounty on them and you never saw one. Now, of course, they are protected and you know the rest. I don't let old Skitso out alone.

[Rich Anderson]

If I had a rifle and saw that deer season or not I'd have put him down then started on the coyotes. A friend shot a nice 4 pt with an 18.5 inch inside spread, the buck had no brow tines. He didn't get the best hit and we found him the next morning the problem was that the coyotes found him the night before. You could see the battle he fought by the tracks.

Coyotes are bad but the wolves esp in the U.P. are worse. If you leave a wounded deer overnight forget it.

[Bill Murphy]

I am confused by the comments of Robert and Dean. Should we shoot the odd coyote or should we not? In my neighborhood, coyote hunters are quite successful, but I have never seen one. What do I do when I see one? I'm not exactly a newcomer in my county, having hunted here for sixty years.

[Rich Anderson]

If you see a coyote and you have a firearm make the introduction. In other words shoot on sight.

[Dean Romig]

I am confused by the comments of Robert and Dean. Should we shoot the odd coyote or should we not? In my neighborhood, coyote hunters are quite successful, but I have never seen one. What do I do when I see one? I'm not exactly a newcomer in my county, having hunted here for sixty years.

Shoot 'em Bill - shoot 'em dead.




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[Rich Anderson]

This is another example of Mother Natures cruelty. The antis should see this along with the PETA liberals. Where's that deer rights??? :whistle:

[James J. Roberts]

A coyote killed a small dog in Fairfax Va. last week,don't have all the details there getting to close to homes in northern Va.I've seen deer,fox,raccoons and a lot of bird life in and around my property but no coyotes yet. J.J.

[Todd Poer]

I grew up on a gentleman's farm in rural north Alabama so we had a lot of coyote sightings even 30 years ago, so have seen them in action but they were always very wary animals and mostly nocturnal. Have never heard of anyone getting attacked back then, but nowadays its probably different. Its like National Park bears, they are probably some of the most dangerous because not afraid of man, same thing with mountain lions. I think grizzlies and lions in the wild that have had a few shots fired over their heads are less dangerous to man, but that is a different thought.

I think if you keep popping off at them a few coyote's will have some near misses you will start seeing less of them. Its probably not the ones that you kill but the ones that learn to stay away from that makes a difference You will never get rid of them though unless you have an all out war on them. They tried that before but a public out cry today would be faster and more furious than a shotgun at 10 feet. Besides these animals are very adaptive, creative and cunning, and will be hard to control. Right now in parts of the South I would bet they would welcome a little more coyote's to take on the feral pig population.

Since I left the old farm years ago parents have lost a few yard dogs and barn cats to what we think might have been coyotes. Years ago we had seen them try and lead our dogs off by trying to get them to chase them by feigning a limp, then we suspect the pack would jump the dog. A couple of years ago parents lost power to a cat that got electrocuted on top of a power pole, we think a coyote chased it up there.

Have lived in a subdivision in suburbia Atlanta for last 15 or so years, its actually against the law to discharge a firearm where I live. So no hunting with guns. We have a healthy deer population that is getting bigger. Have seen a few foxes and racoons over the years but not many. I have never seen a coyote or even heard of anyone in our neighborhood that has seen one until just a week ago, though I knew they were probably around since live close to Chattahoochee River. I walk my springer spaniel early every morning without a leash since I live next to the recreation area of my neighborhood. Its about a 50 yard walk from the gate of my backyard to an area where he can run around off heel. I am walking along watching him and turn around and about 75 yards behind me a coyote is trailing me.

He was big for a coyote and indeed did look like a medium sized German shepherd like in the picture. Coyote saw me and just stopped but I could tell its focus was on my dog. It ran off about 40 yards and then came running back. By this time my dog was at my side and was making him stand at heel. Coyote was just staring us down and then started doing that same fake limp that I had seen years ago and was looking over his shoulder every few steps to see if my dog was chasing him. Luckily my dog is pretty well trained family dog and has had a few run ins with German Shepherds so he wanted no part of that Coyote. But now I know why I am seeing more lost cat signs posted in the neighborhood.

Coyotes are one thing but wolves are another. Years ago we used to go up grouse hunting in Minnesota. I was not on this trip but my dad had a wolf come across a clear cut to him and his setter. Wolf was so focused on his dog that he never saw my dad just standing there. Not certain if wolves can see blaze orange. At first he thought it was a big goat with that long face and he was thinking why is someones goat out here running around until it got within about five yards of him. His setter finally saw the wolf and dog ran behind him and that wolf still did not see my dad standing there. For a second he thought he was going to have to shoot it but he shouldered gun and yelled. That wolf just stopped and looked up at him in a stare down for a few moments and then just ambled off. It was not afraid but more pissed it could not have Setter for lunch. A few years later my dad lost a different Setter up there, first dog he has ever lost. Dog had always hunted close and he always used bells but its like the dog just disappeared. He was not thinking wolf initially but dog had a chip and he let every vet in a 100 mile radius know to be on lookout if someone brought him in. No luck. It is still a wild guess but we wonder if a wolf had gotten him. That was his last trip up there.

[Bill Murphy]

COB would be glad to know that I have bought four Winchester rifles this week. I am trying to beat the coyote problem while adhering to The Lovely Linda's prohibition on shotgun purchases.

[Rich Anderson]

Good job Bill:bowdown: Pre64 M70's?

[todd allen]

I have a couple of dedicated coyote rifles. A .220 Swift, and a .220 Middlestad. (.243/.308 necked down to .22 cal.) And have killed tons of coyotes.
The Middlestad drives a 70 grain Berger at 4000 fps, and shoots in the low 2s at 100 yds.
Over the years I have killed them with everything from a. 22 lr, up to a 7 mm Mag. Even killed one with a .45 auto.
Electric call, camo, and a flat shooting rifle, and you're in the coyote business.

[Eric Eis]

On my property I tell all my friends that come up to hunt or camp. I have just a couple of rules, and one of them if it's a coyote or a porky it's shot or you are not welcome to come back.......... Very easy rule to follow.

[Scot Cardillo]

Guess I've been fortunate. Haven't had many run-ins with Coyotes..none that were serious anyhow. Wolves - they scare me.

Bill - I'm sure you've heard chatter about timber wolves crossing w/coyotes in Western MD (like I have for yrs) Any idea whether that's an issue up that way?

[Dean Romig]

That wolf/coyote cross breeding hypothesis has been suggested for at least forty years that I know of in northern New England. Don't know if its been proven but coyotes in the mid-seventy lb. range have been killed up this way. As I understand, 35 - 45 lbs. seems to be the average in the West and Southwest.

Steve Hodges may be able to speak to this subject - he having been in the game-management business in NH and Maine for a lot of his career.




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[Stephen Hodges]

New England Coyotes poses about 8% wolf genes. As time goes on these wolf gene traits will become more pronounced through natural selection creating larger Coyotes and more wolf like hunting and family behavior. The mentioned picture shows wolf like hunting behavior, by that i mean pack hunting. We do not need to re-introduce wolves to New England, they are re-introducing themselves.

[Gary Laudermilch]

Eastern coyotes are a different critter than their western counterpart. They do not respond to calls like they do in the west. A sportsman's club in western PA has a big coyote hunt/competition every year. The first year the prize money reached a sizable sum ($15k) competitors came from many western states. They assumed that because they know how to hunt coyotes out west that they were a shoe-in for the money. Results, not one western competitor killed a coyote. Most years the winners are those that run them with hounds.

[Scot Cardillo]

I've heard random stories here and there about incidents involving 70 lb crossbreeds as well, Dean. Also, my darling bride says you're spot-on with your size estimate so far as what she recalls growing up in SD. (35-45lbs)

The Coyote must have much more to gain than what the Wolf does by breeding w/a Coyote, I would think. Not good considering how successful Coyotes are at living so close to man.

[Stephen Hodges]

The coyotes in New England picked up there wolf genes while migrating from the Midwest to New England over 100 yeas ago from wolves in Canada. There is no wolf population here for them to breed with since. That is not to say that an occasional wolf could disperse from Quebec, but we have no breeding population of wolves. That is why the coyotes were able to gain a foothold in the region. No canine competition. The whole coyote discussion is a fascinating one filled with misnomers and rumors, such as the "coy-dog" myth that was popular in the 1960's. Like it or not they are here to stay so we need to learn to live with them.

[Eric Eis]

I am sure all of the residents of the UP of Michigan would be more then happy to reintroduce the wolf to New England area (like the Gov. did to the UP) You know they would probably be willing to pay for "shipping"................ Maybe ship them to NY close to the city, then maybe we could see how all the PETA and USHS people would feel...! Sorry sore point........

[Dean Romig]

What the HE77 do we need wolves for Eric, when we have enough trouble with large coyotes?...:knowbetter:

Sorry... raw nerve. :bigbye:




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[Scot Cardillo]

Good info Steve - My wife and I visit the Pacific Northwest somewhat frequently. Eastern WA close to the Idaho border and north of Spokane. Apparently there was an effort to re-introduce (or strengthen) a few wolf packs in the northern-most region of that area about ten yrs ago. The wolves have since thrived and they're now shot on site by the locals who lose livestock regularly. The packs are moving south and I think there is now a formal plan to destroy a particular pack altogether - sad it has to come to that. Sorry for the hijack Gary - serious critters are of interest to me b/c we'll end up out there smack dab in Griz, Cat, Wolf territory for good at some point. Makes a fella very concerned about his dog not to mention concern due to time spent along a river w/fly rod in hand. Conventional wisdom (from the locals) says one should avoid the Elk movements and chances of a dangerous encounter are reduced significantly. Plenty of coyotes out there as well. I've never heard a whisper about coyotes and wolves interbreeding but that's not to say it doesn't occur.

[Bob Brown]

Five years ago, in early winter, a coyote killed our Jack Russel cross in our driveway. I mentioned it in a post at the time on this site. My labs and I chased the coyote until he dropped it and took off. Shyster was dead when I got to him. My wife loved that little dog and cried darn near non stop for about a week. She's border line anti-hunting, but since then if it leads to dead coyotes she's all for it.
Lots of coyotes, wolves, and bear near the house up here. Quite a few of my neighbors have lost dogs and livestock, mostly to wolves. Some have lost several dogs. One not too far from us kicked his door open and shot 2 wolves as they were dragging his dog down the steps of his porch. The municipal district still pays a $200 bounty for each wolf trapped or shot.
Here is a story of a young lady that was killed by a couple of coyotes in eastern Canada. There has been at least one more attack in that park since then.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/coyotes-kill-toronto-singer-in-cape-breton-1.779304

[Eric Eis]

What the HE77 do we need wolves for Eric, when we have enough trouble with large coyotes?...:knowbetter:

Sorry... raw nerve. :bigbye:




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I figure with all the Anti's, and tree huggers you have, they would love to have the chance to see a real life wolf...:rotf::rotf:
Like I said the people in the UP don't have a lot of money but I know they will take up donations to pay the shipping costs..........!:rolleyes:

[Stephen Hodges]

I am sure all of the residents of the UP of Michigan would be more then happy to reintroduce the wolf to New England area (like the Gov. did to the UP) You know they would probably be willing to pay for "shipping"................ Maybe ship them to NY close to the city, then maybe we could see how all the PETA and USHS people would feel...! Sorry sore point........

Eric, when i was on the NH Fish and Game Commission we were faced with the possibility that the Feds were looking at the re-introduction of wolves to Northern Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont. We passed a resolution as being against this effort of an artificial re-introduction of wolves to New Hampshire. The federal effort soon died. Thank the lord.

[Gerald McPherson]

A friend saw one trotting along side his truck one night about two years ago. He says there is no doubt what it was. Shortly after another friend killed one in his pasture as it was chasing his horse. This one was confirmed to be a wolf. This happened near Acworth, Georgia. I have heard that some were stocked in the Blue Ridge mountains prior to this. Plenty of coyotes in my area. They are rough on calves and goats. They will dig up buried cows and feed until there is nothing left. I have seen them go as deep as four feet to get to the cows. This is a prime place to kill them. KILL THEM ALL. Gerald

PS. Though some say no there are also lions here .

[Richard Flanders]

The coyotes in Alaska are also much larger than the scrawny appearing western US yotes that I've seen. It is very easy to mistake them for small wolves. We have coyotes pretty much all over the state except north of the Brooks Range. I've had them come through my yard here in Fairbanks and suspect a golden retriever that my neighbor had disappear was perhaps taken by coyotes. A lot of people say that the wolves keep the coyote population down but I see their tracks in the snow and on sand bars all over this area. I have never once though seen multiple sets of tracks together like you regularly do with wolves.

The article on the coyote attack that Bob Brown posted is well worth a read and clearly shows how ignorant their park rangers are of predatory animal behavior. Do they really think that killing two bad actor coyotes is going to make the trail suddenly safe? Like these are the only two coyotes in the area that are practicing predatory pack hunting techniques? I think they've been watching too many Wiley Coyote cartoons and need to study up on animal behavior in the real world. We had a similar thing happen in Alaska this past spring. Two bear attack deaths in two days, one a young lady geologist in a remote area with a partner, neither of which had a gun, and a young kid on a trail hike near Anchorage. The articles afterwards went on and on about "we're not sure why these bears did what they did".... Wake up idiots. It was a late spring so when the bears came out of hibernation in a very hungry mood there was none of the regular vegetation they eat at that time and they were desperate for food. Pretty much anything that moves is potential food for a bear, including humans. Both of these incidents were purely hunger-driven predatory attacks. There's not much could be changed on the kid that got killed other than to NOT have him on a trail alone. The two lady geologists who got attacked were young and inexperienced and had only bear spray, which does not work in predatory attacks. Any experienced geologist knows to carry a gun early in the season... Had they had a gun they knew how to use it would have been a non-event that would have lasted no more than a few minutes. The bear came and went three times before killing one of them. General protocol for experienced field workers is that you chase them away once; if they come back and are aggressive you shoot to kill and you never ever waste ammo on shots to just scare them away, as that has been well proven to be a total waste of powder. They emptied their bear spray to no effect - what a surprises. I did that once also, and on a bear that was full of blueberries and could not have been at all hungry; my Winchester .45-90 ended up solving that problem in our favor. The articles on both of these incidents last spring pretty much blamed everything but hunger, despite the finding that the bear that killed the lady geo had a totally empty stomach. I tell you the ignorance is mind boggling. This kind of thing is a very hot button issue for me because it was so easily preventable. Ok, I'm done ranting....:banghead:

[Rich Anderson]

What the HE77 do we need wolves for Eric, when we have enough trouble with large coyotes?...:knowbetter:

Sorry... raw nerve. :bigbye:




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It's the holidays and Eric just wants to share.:rotf:

[Scot Cardillo]

Excellent information Richard. Thank you.

[Todd Poer]

Richard,

Years ago I went on an Alaskan trip. Bush pilot dropped us off on a tundra pond with rafts to inflate to cruise down a nearby river fishing for salmon, trout, grayling, etc. We were in the wilderness for a week and never saw another soul. Saw all kinds of fresh bear sign everywhere we went but I was not in hunting mode so I always made plenty of noise and always talked real loud coming up to blind bends in the river. Great trip.

Did not actually see a bear until the next to last day. Just set up camp for the night at 11 pm and you know that feeling your being watched and I turn around and 100 yards up river and wind is a Grizz standing there. We lock eyes and before I could even say hey bear it lit out like a scalded dog running and crashing through that willow and alder scrub that comes up to my chest. I could see the bears head bobbing around every now and again but man it was moving. I never felt so small in all my life and no we only had pepper spray. But I was pretty confident I could out run the rest of my party.

Not thinking anything about it but feeling thankful it lit out and thinking bear had gone pretty far I walk up to where I had seen the bear on the gravel bar to see how big its tracks where compared to other bear sign. I think the other ones were black bears or smaller bears sign we had seen all week. Anyway if life is a movie this is when people in the audience throw popcorn at the screen yelling "don't do that you idiot". I get there and right beside the big bear track is a set of small bear tracks that were just as fresh. Right then is when a cold chill just ran down my spine. Never saw the cub and my immediate thought was if she lost track of her cub she was going to circle back on me, and me just holding a 6 weight fly rod. Man I felt really small and stupid at that point. Walking cautiously,briskly and whistling as loud as I could I slip back to camp I kept thinking and saying to myself "lets not be a statistic". I kept looking around for an exit strategy thinking where is the tallest tree and could I make it if she showed up. Problem with country we were in is that all the trees are scrubby and the tallest for miles was no more than 10 to 12 feet tall. I did not sleep a wink that night, but I did find out why she was there. We were at one of their fishing spots as there was a shallow river wide riffle that was easy pickings for the salmon. Needless to say I wanted the heck out of that area.

Great trip though. Did land a 54 lb king salmon on light tackle. I ate so much fresh salmon that week that it took me a year before I could look at salmon again as a meal. BTW that bush pilot that dropped us off and picked us up was incredible. Name of his company was Ptarmigan Air and his slogan was "We're not Chicken". That was first time I had heard the story about Chicken, Alaska and how no one there could spell the name of those funny looking birds hanging around.

Lions, Tigers, Bears, Wolves, Coyotes..... Oh my.

[Richard Flanders]

Have a read of this article in the Anchorage newspaper. Look at the stats carefully. This is what a late spring that leads to a terrible berry year produces. The blueberries, which constitute a large part of the bears diet, were down by approximately 80% this fall so the bears just move into town and go for garbage, especially around Anchorage, which is bordered by prime bear habitat. The author of this is a retired AK Fish and Game biologist and a very sharp guy. I have to say, though, that even he did not emphasize hunger as being the driver for the bear attacks this past summer.

https://www.adn.com/opinions/2017/12/25/want-bears-out-of-anchorage-stop-leaving-garbage-out/

[Todd Poer]

Great article. My brother in law is in the Air Force, actually just made General this year. I guess I am about as proud of a brother in law as you can be. He and my sister were stationed in JBER a few years ago and got to visit them. That year two people were mauled by bears on the base but luckily survived. I remember my sister having to to go to bear survival training where they showed them how to use bear spray. They had moose always in their yard during winter time, which is probably more dangerous than a bear. Crazy place. We drove all over the lower portion of the base but could not go to the larger portion of base because of maneuvers. Seems they will fly guys in from all over the world and then drop them into Grizzly country for survival training. That place is massive. Would be very hard to police bear activity there unless you just try and wiped them out and then they would just run into town probably.

All I know is that the wildlife were their first and they don't sign treaties.