Ithaca 4E help

[James Palmer]

I ran into this Ithaca recently but I don’t have much experience with them.

Seems to be in very nice shape.

All option 12 ga vent rib bvtl ejectors.

Anyone have any comments on value and originality?

Thanks in advance.

James

[Dean Romig]

It looks to be entirely original. A very nice example.





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[James Palmer]

More pics...

[Reggie Bishop]

That is a nice, original Ithaca 4E. I have the sibling to that gun in 20 gauge except mine has a splinter as opposed to the beavertail.

[James Palmer]

Thanks.

Any idea on value?

J

[Reggie Bishop]

I am a small gauge person so I can't help much on a 12 ga. But I would say $4000-$5000.
Considering the condition.

[James Palmer]

Thanks again.

[Bill Davis]

That's a very decent 4-E with my favorite, 3 position safety, single trigger. Although you don't show the butt stock, I suspect it's a trap configuration gun. An indicator gun with the earlier small Beavertail, I'm guessing a late 20's gun with a serial number under 430,000. There are a few of these on the market currently in the $35-4500 range. They are generally difficult to sell once the price exceeds 4K. They are very fine guns to shoot and I've taken a similar gun to Mexico for ducks etc in the late 90's-early 2000's. Steve Lamboy (ICD) shot a Grade 3 NID on that particular trip that had been all over the world and he fondly named it "International Harvestor"!

[Bill Murphy]

Miller trigger, probably original to the gun.

[Bill Davis]

Miller design for sure. Early on, Ithaca paid Miller a royalty for each trigger($5?) Later on down the road, they quit that and I've heard the Miller Brothers were not happy! Walt Snyder might shed some light on that aspect!

[Dave Noreen]

The price of the single selective trigger on the NID when it was introduced in 1926 was $30. It stayed at $30 through the first 1932 Ithaca Gun Co. catalog. By the second 1932 Ithaca Gun Co. catalog, the introduction of the Excise Tax jumped it to $32.45, and also saw the introduction of the Harry Howland designed non-selective single trigger at $6.50, Patent No. 1,889,049 granted Nov. 29, 1932. For 1933, the prices remained $32.45 and $6.50. By the 1934 Ithaca Gun Co. catalog the price of the selective single trigger dropped to $21.60. I believe that price drop indicates the break with the Miller brothers and the introduction of the use of the Harry E. Howland designed single selective trigger covered by his Patent No. 1,818,852 granted Aug. 11, 1931.

Ithaca Gun Co. was busy during the early 1930s. In addition to the trigger business, the first 1932 catalog added the 28-gauge NID to the listed offerings and the second 1932 catalog saw the introduction of the Magnum-Ten. Also during that time they introduced their Nestor F. Smith designed "bridge truss" recoil pad. And, they were gearing up to build their slab-sided knock-off of the John M. Browning designed Remington Model 17, but patent infringement problems pushed that introduction off to 1937.

[James Palmer]

Thanks to all for the info.

[James Palmer]

Does anyone have Walt Snyder’s contact info by chance. Or a way to get research letters for Ithaca’s.

I have a question regarding another 20 ga Ithaca and the owner claims is factory 24 inch Barrels.

J

[Reggie Bishop]

I can't help with any of that but, there is a pretty active group of Ithaca guys on the forum at shotgunworld.com. I bet someone there can offer up something on the 24 inch barrels.

[Reggie Bishop]

Now that I think on it some more, I think Walt posts there under the title "Ithacanut". I have also snooped around some and it appears that 24" barrels were available from Ithaca. I don't have any details, only that there are Ithaca guns with factory 24" barrels.

[Dave Noreen]

In the early Flues years, Ithaca Gun Co. offered 24-inch barrels on their 20-gauge guns and after the 1912 introduction of the 28-gauge on them as well. By the July 1919 Ithaca Gun Co. catalog the only 24-inch barrels offered were on the 28-gauge and by the 1920 catalog no 24-inch barrels were offered. However, we see quite a few Ithaca with barrel lengths not in the catalogs. The 1915 Ithaca Gun Co. catalog only offered the 28-gauge with 24 or 26-inch barrels but I have a No. 1 Special, verified by Walter, with 30-inch Cockerill Steel barrels.

As I understand it Walter has sent all the Flues era records to Cody and maybe someday they will get around to offering letters from those records. When I was at the Buffalo Bill Center of the West, with the Remington Society in late September 2014, I saw several boxes from Walter Snyder on the receiving racks at the McCracken Research Library.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

I shot the course at Hausmann's with a fellow PGCA member who was shooting a 4E 20 with 24" barrels

[Shawn Wayment]

I just purchased an 1927 NID grade I miller trigger with extractors .410 for $5500. It has 26 inch barrels which I guess is common for .410's

[Bill Murphy]

There are Flues era guns with factory 22" barrels. I have a letter on a ten gauge with factory 22" barrels. I don't recall if the letter mentioned the original buyer.

[James Palmer]

How would one order a letter?

J

[edgarspencer]

There are Flues era guns with factory 22" barrels. I have a letter on a ten gauge with factory 22" barrels. I don't recall if the letter mentioned the original buyer.

Wells Fargo?:rotf:

[Bill Davis]

There is no way to get a "Factory" letter on Ithacas. Who knows when Cody will offer that service using records donated by Walt. I'm sure they will have to be computerized first. Doubtful they'll do any manual searches. I had an non-indicator NID 16 Field some years ago with original 22 inch barrels and a single trigger. Lou Smith, Ithaca Pres, was an avid grouse hunter and had a few made up as Upland Specials. Walt had records on the gun to verify.

[Dave Noreen]

Walter pictures a 16-gauge NID Field Grade, serial number 461345, with 22-inch cylinder and improved cylinder barrels, a single non-selective trigger, with its hang tag on page 327 of the Second Edition of his book. Walter calls it an "Uplander" but that term doesn't appear on the hang-tag.

In my pretty complete collection of NID period catalogs and price lists I've not seen such a gun offered. Guess it was one of those "you had to know somebody" items!!

[Bill Murphy]

I believe Walt sent me provenance on the ten gauge Flues 22" gun. As I posted, I don't remember who the original purchaser was. NID28, don't question my statements on provenance until you know me better.

[Bill Davis]

Bill==I never questioned your provenance on anything and have no clue what you're talking about. I told James Palmer--who asked about a factory letter--that I don't think it's possible AT THIS TIME, from Cody. I've gotten many provenance details from Walt over many years and your posting never entered into my thinking or response.

[Bill Murphy]

Yup, Walt was my source, as well as on other Ithaca guns, including my Sousa Single. I think he is a good source.

[Dean Romig]

Walt has very kindly helped me on a few Ithacas in the past several years.





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[Harold Lee Pickens]

Wouldn't want to be in that duck blind when that 22" 10 ga went off!!

[Dave Noreen]

There are Flues era guns with factory 22" barrels. I have a letter on a ten gauge with factory 22" barrels. I don't recall if the letter mentioned the original buyer.
Wells Fargo?

The righteous Wells Fargo Ithaca doubles were either NIG hammer guns before 1915 or the "New Two Bolt Hammer Model" after 1915.

[Bill Murphy]

I missed my chance to buy the 22" Flues ten at a reasonable price. It was a mint gun with fluid steel barrels. NID28, you most certainly did question my statement on the provenance of the 22" ten gauge Flues. I saw your post as a statement that I had lied. Try again. I am a serious researcher and I don't lie. How about an apology?

[Larry Stauch]

:corn: