Grade 5 Hammer Guns With Steel Barrels

[edgarspencer]

Mark Conrad's Beautiful Grade 5 Hammer gun was a huge coincidence for me, in that a friend just purchased a Grade 5 Hammer gun receiver, with locks.

http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?p=225107#post225107

In looking up the serial number, 108658, stamped on the water table of the receiver, more mystery surfaced. It is listed in the "Book" as 'T5 H 0 C 12 30'

Dean pointed out a comment in the Serialization book (actually on Page 64)
" Probably a keystroke error, possibly a grade 3 gun with Titanic Steel barrels."
Not to mention it is also listed as 'H', meaning hammerless.

This entry, in itself seems to be a 'keystroke error' as it is listed as "T5", and not 'T3'.

The emailed images are not clear at all, but I got to examine the receiver in the flesh, and it is clearly marked with a '5' on the watertable, clearly stamped 108658, and one look at the teardrops on the bolsters, and the hammers, and the engraving, proves it to be a Grade 5.
Now the unanswered question is, were there in fact 5 of these guns, as indicated in TPS, or is this a sixth?

[Ed Blake]

Does your friend have plans for that receiver or did he buy it as a paperweight?

[Dean Romig]

There is no question as to the grade of that receiver being a 5.

I firmly believe the 'keystroke error' was the omission of the "I" in what should have been TI5.

Depending on what records PGCA Research Chairman Chuck Bishop may have on 108658 the number of these specific TI5 guns may remain at 5 or may actually become 6.





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[Bill Murphy]

Wow, I want that receiver.

[edgarspencer]

Does your friend have plans for that receiver or did he buy it as a paperweight?

Ed, that depends on who you ask. He will tell you it's a 'project'. I am certain it will remain a beautiful paperweight.

[edgarspencer]

Wow, I want that receiver.

Bill, If you put your thinking cap on, you'll figure out who bought it. I'm sure he would love to sell it to you. I'm only investing in projects I can finish before bedtime.

[Chuck Bishop]

The Serialization Book is wrong. It is indeed a B grade hammer gun 12ga. with Titanic 32" barrels and a straight grip stock. The order book entry has quite a few specific special requests as to how he wanted the gun built such as stock dimensions, trigger pulls, type of shell to pattern with, etc. Too bad he has just the receiver!

Unfortunately, the stock book for this gun is missing, therefore the info found in the Serialization Book was taken from the order books. Remember that when the Serialization Book was compiled, grade D guns and above were searched for in the order books and if those guns were not listed in the stock books, those guns were added to the Serialization Book. It's hard to imagine the work that took place to compile all this data. Little wonder that mistakes were made and few at that compared to the number of guns listed.

Since Mark's gun is also a B grade 12ga. hammer gun with 32" Titanic barrels, 108658 would be 2nd known to exist.

[Dean Romig]

Chuck, can you comment on there having been 5 or 6 of these Titanic barreled guns made.
Do we kno the serial numbers of the 5 accounted for in the tables in "The Parker Story"?






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[Chuck Bishop]

Dean, this can get very confusing! From the appendix in TPS they list 5 TI5 hammer guns. S/N's 91632,94269,102517,102518, and 112752. Notice that Edgar's example 108658 is not listed in the appendix but we do have the order book for that gun, therefore 108658 should have been included in the Serialization Book and appendix but wasn't. Mark's gun 92850 is listed in the appendix as being a hammerless gun so it wasn't included as 1 of the 5 known TI5 hammer guns.

From what we now know, there were at least 7 TI5 guns made. Am I thinking correctly?

[Dean Romig]

That sounds right Chuck. On top of the 5 known there are (at least) 2 more incorrectly documented.





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[edgarspencer]

From what we now know, there were at least 7 TI5 hammerguns made. Am I thinking correctly?

I believe you are. If I'm putting it all together correctly, TPS is incorrect in the statement that there were 5, 4 at 30" and 1 at 32". It would now appear there were at least 7; 4 with 30" barrels and 3 with 32" barrels

[Robin Lewis]

That's still a very small number. Wish I had one!

[edgarspencer]

Still working with emailed pictures. Sorry they're not that great.

[Dean Romig]

It is very unfortunate the gun is in such a sad state. The frame looks to be in fairly decent condition leading one to wonder as to the circumstances that brought it to this condition.
It doesn't appear to have been the victim of a house fire so it was obviously reassembled after the stock was removed...





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[edgarspencer]

The condition is much better than what these poor pictures depict. On the other hand, the prospect of it ever becoming a whole gun again is daunting at best.
The likelihood of finding Top Lever Titanic barrels of any length, let alone 32", is equal to unicorn poop, but only money is required for a butt stock, correct trigger guard (unless you want to CPG) and a fore end with all the trimmings. Unless the Order book states butt treatment, a nice Silvers pad beats hunting down a SSBP.

Hmmm. Do I recall a certain North of the Border Craftsman who just made a set of hammerless barrels into a TL set. I hear he works in wood on occasion too.

[Dean Romig]

Unless the Order book states butt treatment, a nice Silvers pad beats hunting down a SSBP.



Hmmm... I'm not so sure of that. :cool:


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[John Truitt]

That is an exquisite frame and engraving. Looks like no game scenes (exactly what I like). Plus it is a fish tail top lever and has the two piece hinge pin.

I would be happy to bring that one back to life.

[edgarspencer]

So you're offering up that butt plate? I doubt it.
John, there is a bunny on the trigger plate just forward of the bow, but the tiggerplate, and present PG trigger guard are from a 42xxx gun.

[John Truitt]

One bunny does not hurt a thing.


Being serious I don't see any other game scenes/ animal scenes. Other than the bunny it all appears in the pics to be scroll.
IMO very very tasteful.

[Dean Romig]

Edgar, if the gun ever gets to the point of only needing a skeleton butt plate - yes I'm offering mine.





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[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Edgar, It is possible to find 32" Titanic barrels for a hammer gun, I was lucky enough to find a set, Just are very rare, thanks to a member for mine! Although I do not have them any more, Gary

[edgarspencer]

Edgar, if the gun ever gets to the point of only needing a skeleton butt plate - yes I'm offering mine.

Start packing it up, Dean. I just located a grade 5 fore end tip and latch. I'm on a roll.

[Brett Hoop]

Edgar

You forgot you were supposed to forget you had that.

[edgarspencer]

Edgar

You forgot you were supposed to forget you had that.

Don't worry, Brett. I'll forget them before the day is out. This way I get to be surprised, over and over.

[charlie cleveland]

nice find there sure was some nice engraving on those guns....charlie

[Craig Budgeon]

Edgar, that gun needs to be restored, if not by you by someone who will restore it correctly. If you choose to restore it you'll just have to go to bed later or take NODOZE.

[edgarspencer]

Edgar, that gun needs to be restored, if not by you by someone who will restore it correctly. If you choose to restore it you'll just have to go to bed later or take NODOZE.

I go to bed at 2:30 as it is. Too many things to think about in the daytime.
However unintentional, I find I am working in the direction of restoring this gun (if only to get Romig to give up that SSBP). I haven't a clue where I got the idea it was in my wheelhouse, but my cardiologist told me last week that I'm strong as a horse, so, onward and upward.

[Rick Losey]

did he say WHICH horse???


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_4z08nZJl6Kk/TGQ6WKEHNZI/AAAAAAAAAWg/RVJMpj4HmkI/s1600/OldHorse.jpg

[edgarspencer]

Ha ha ha

[Craig Budgeon]

Glad to hear the B and the SSBP may be married in the future.

[Dean Romig]

My skeleton butt plate is from an AAH Parker.





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