Vintagers

[Mike Franzen]

I'm just curious. Who all is going to the Vintagers shoot in a couple weeks?

[Chuck Bishop]

Hopefully just for Saturday.

[Buddy Marson]

I plan on being there for the whole event. I attended last year and had a great time!
Buddy

[John Truitt]

I plan on being there for the whole event.
Hope to see you all there.

John

[Josh Loewensteiner]

I will be there and will be bringing a selection of the Tauber Foxes and the Bouwkamp Parkers to display in the Julia auctions booth. I'll be there all weekend.

[Bill Murphy]

I'll be there day 1, and all following days if things look good.

[Kevin McCormack]

There all 4 days.

[JAMES HALL]

I will be there also.

[Mike.Smith]

I'm making the drive to PA for Mike's shoot, and will be there for the whole Vintagers event as well.

Mike

[Mike Franzen]

Thanks for the replies gentlemen. Looks like a pretty good contingent. Unfortunately I won't be able to attend this year due to work and I haven't been since it was held at Pintail Point. I loved the event then and thought it was first class. Hopefully I'll get to attend next year. Maybe someone could post some pics.

[Bill Murphy]

Dave Weber usually has pictures on his site. Past year's pictures are very entertaining.

[John Truitt]

Mr Weber has not posted pics of the VC since 2012, at least no others that I can find or are aware of.

[Bill Murphy]

Maybe things will change this year.

[MattHaney]

I'll be there.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

I also will not be able to attend, but sounds like it will be a great time to be had! Gary

[Richard Flanders]

I wish...:crying:

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Last time I went was before Roger Giles passed away. We headed south from there to Wachapreague, VA and shot rail birds with what was probably the only family of black hunting guides left in the United States. We caught a "storm tide" and killed our birds easy both mornings, one of those magic moments never to be repeated.

Roger is gone and so are all three brothers who were our pushers. Good memories all. I can still just see him standing in the front of the Carolina Skiff beaming after finishing his limit just as we came poling round the canal bend.

[Eric Eis]

Destry, I think those memories are the reason that we hunt...........

[Kevin McCormack]

Thursday was "excitement-building" day; Friday the attendance and shooter participation was promising; Saturday was 'Hustle-Bustle" day with lots of shooting and nice guns sold; Sunday (today) was pretty much a vast wasteland. Once the Leader Board is established and unless a shootoff is necessary to determine winners, the place empties FAST!

[Eric Eis]

Maybe it's me but this sure has been a "very quiet" Vintagers event... No one has said much of anything about it, no pictures, no comments on the course how many people. Just wondering but from the feedback on the different boards it doesn't sound lile something I would spend a day and a day back driving to..:shock:

[Mills Morrison]

Eric is right. From what little I have seen, it was a great event, but I don't see any pictures yet.

[Chuck Bishop]

I posted a few pictures under the events, shows, and conventions forum. Can you see them ? Strange that only 5 people have looked at it and no body has commented.

[Reggie Bishop]

I have searched and see not pictures? I may be looking in the wrong place.

[Reggie Bishop]

Ok I found the pictures under the parker/fox challenge.

[Mills Morrison]

Here they are:

http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?p=225411#post225411

[Kevin McCormack]

Quite a bit of vendor / participant discussion sotto voce about this, Eric. Chuck posted some pictures and elaborated on the near-fiasco with the FPC when we couldn't locate one of our Fox shooters. Concensus is he never came back to check the leader board to see if he had made the team and most likely left the premesis before the 3PM shootoff! This, after having signed up, paid $50 for the qualifiying round, and coming back to turn his scorecard in!

There were in excess of 150 shooters overall but in typical fashion they trickled in & out in small groups according to their event classes and gauges. Hopkins staff did a good job checking with vendors through the tents periodically but nothing like prior events at other locations which shall remain unnamed. You have to remember that this is year 2 of Hopkins involvement in the VC; the learning curve IMHO is still steep for them.

Having been to every one of these things since the first one at Addieville (with the exception of last year), I can tell you one of the biggest problems with these events is advance publicity. Before the first VC at Pintail Point in MD, there was exactly ONE sign in the window of Albright's Gun Shop in Easton MD regarding the event. Last weekend at Hopkins, there was NOT ONE SIGN or notice at the full-service sporting goods store (think a "mini-Cabela's") or attached restaurant and quick-stop gas mart less than a half-mile away! I bet I talked to 20 people on Saturday who had no idea that they could go there for ice, paper towels, bottled water, bug spray, etc. And this at an establishment (Hopkins) that's been in operation for the better part of 25 years! After doing these type events since the 1980's, I'm convinced the key is a 'total immersion" approach with a little bit of Chamber of Commerce connection flavor (e.g., what's nearby, etc.). Also - ads in ALL the specialty mags, nearby storefronts, and on our BBS sights many months in advance. Without advance publicity these things happen in a vacuum.

[John Truitt]

I was at last years and this years VGC.

What Mr McCormick said is spot on.

Much more shooters this year over last. Much more shooters on the course and entering events.
More vendors. I don't know how the vendors felt. If guns were sold or not. I know I bought one but overall I just don't know how it went for them.

I will say this as far as from a shooting perspective (again shooting, nothing else): Mr and Mrs Hopkins and their excellent staff have done and are willing to do everything that has been asked of them. They made adjustments that were asked of them from last years event and made them much better this year. THEY ARE LEARNING and WILLING TO DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES to make this shoot a success.

IMO: advertising for next years event needs to start now. Just like Kevin said, all the usual magazines, journals, parker pages, LC smith journal, etc. Get the word out. On line sites, etc.



As for the course:
1. sub gauge course (410,32,28,24,20)
2. large bore course (16,12,10)
3. Two practice five stands
4. One competition five stand (FPC and Main event shoot off for HOA)
5. a great 6 machine driven flurry set up
6. 100 bird main event course (on a totally different part of the property)
7. Rifle course for big bore, stalking/ stopping rifles/ cape gun/ drilling/ etc


It is a big place. I do suggest a golf cart or gator or something. some were walking it but a cart helps.
Trappers at all stations and fields.
Water coolers on the course

great targets!!!!!!!!!!! for all events, each course with its own flavor.

Excellent staff. Very professional. they know what they are doing.
remember this is only their second time dealing with a side by side event. They are used to NSCA. so it is a big learning curve and very different than what they are used to.

I have nothing negative to say about the event, course, location, people, etc.
I am thankful the VGC is back and around and back again for next year. I will do everything I can to support both the VGC and Hopkins and the PGCA.

[Kevin McCormack]

Thanks very much for the expanded view of the event, John - especially the layout and target regimens. I will 'ditto' your views on staff and attention to detail - they did a good job! Also your comments on the size and desirability of a cart - one thing I didn't notice until late Saturday was that they sent staff around with a huge water tank truck to dampen the dust down, which was becoming a real problem settling on guns & other merchandise on Thurs. and Fri. Great perception by these people!! They need our assistance to improve and propagate this event for the future. Better for them means better for us - vendors and competitors alike - lets work on it!

[John Truitt]

They need our assistance to improve and propagate this event for the future. Better for them means better for us - vendors and competitors alike - lets work on it![/QUOTE]

Could not be any more true. Well said Mr M.

[Frank Srebro]

Just my take on things.

Of course this is only the 2nd time Hopkins did the Vintagers event, but Hopkins has been putting on well run sporting clays tournaments for twenty or more years and surely knows how to do the shooting part. The question is: was Hopkins doing the event as per parameters set forth by the new Vintagers organization, or was Hopkins in the driver's seat and using the Vintagers name and goodwill to promote its own (Hopkins) SxS shoot?

Said another way, was this a Hopkins shoot or a Vintagers shoot? It seems the answer is the latter as there were Vintagers flying signposts at the entrance driveway to the club and none of the promotional posts I've seen either here or elsewhere were originated by Hopkins management or staffers.

If in fact this was a Vintagers shoot, the feedback and improvement ideas should be addressed to the Vintagers organization, not to Hopkins as some of the posts here seem to propose. I'm sure Hopkins will do whatever the Vintagers contracts for, and do it well, and I believe that the future improvement of this event lies primarily with the Vintagers leadership. Let's not chase the wrong rabbit.

One last comment, it didn't help that there were three competing events last weekend and the weekend before. And those of us in the north who didn't have other obligations and wanted to shoot or see some of the larger vendors before they travelled to Hopkins, had other options closer to home.

Again, all this is just my take fwiw.

frank

[Kevin McCormack]

The feedback and improvement ideas need to be conveyed to BOTH Hopkins & the Vintagers at the same time, so Hopkins knows of the recommendations and concerns expressed and can react accordingly. That way, both are aware of the vendor/participant concerns and can adjust their "windage and elevation" accordingly to improve the event.

[William Davis]

My uninformed observation is Hopkins provided the facility while the Vintagers promoted the event. I thought Hopkins did a great job, equal to Backwoods, and that's saying a lot.

William

[Edwin Obrecht]

Quite a bit of vendor / participant discussion sotto voce about this, Eric. Chuck posted some pictures and elaborated on the near-fiasco with the FPC when we couldn't locate one of our Fox shooters. Concensus is he never came back to check the leader board to see if he had made the team and most likely left the premesis before the 3PM shootoff! This, after having signed up, paid $50 for the qualifiying round, and coming back to turn his scorecard in!

There were in excess of 150 shooters overall but in typical fashion they trickled in & out in small groups according to their event classes and gauges. Hopkins staff did a good job checking with vendors through the tents periodically but nothing like prior events at other locations which shall remain unnamed. You have to remember that this is year 2 of Hopkins involvement in the VC; the learning curve IMHO is still steep for them.



Having been to every one of these things since the first one at Addieville (with the exception of last year), I can tell you one of the biggest problems with these events is advance publicity. Before the first VC at Pintail Point in MD, there was exactly ONE sign in the window of Albright's Gun Shop in Easton MD regarding the event. Last weekend at Hopkins, there was NOT ONE SIGN or notice at the full-service sporting goods store (think a "mini-Cabela's") or attached restaurant and quick-stop gas mart less than a half-mile away! I bet I talked to 20 people on Saturday who had no idea that they could go there for ice, paper towels, bottled water, bug spray, etc. And this at an establishment (Hopkins) that's been in operation for the better part of 25 years! After doing these type events since the 1980's, I'm convinced the key is a 'total immersion" approach with a little bit of Chamber of Commerce connection flavor (e.g., what's nearby, etc.). Also - ads in ALL the specialty mags, nearby storefronts, and on our BBS sights many months in advance. Without advance publicity these things happen in a vacuum.

I passed this on to the management of Molly’s ( mini Cabelas). Bet you see some signage in the future.

[Mike Franzen]

Maybe it's me but this sure has been a "very quiet" Vintagers event... No one has said much of anything about it, no pictures, no comments on the course how many people. Just wondering but from the feedback on the different boards it doesn't sound lile something I would spend a day and a day back driving to..:shock:

If the hosts are looking for constructive feedback I think Eric’s comment is a good one. I didn’t go this year but, I can’t remember seeing any ads or promotional material about the event either before, during or after.

[John Campbell]

After some many years in the advertising/communications business, I can suggest that events like The Vintagers must be sure to assess and optimize two things:

Audience and Promotion.

Without a sizable and enthusiastic audience, success is difficult.

Without effective and far-reaching promotion/advertising to that audience, success is impossible.

Sadly, effective promotion and advertising cost money. And time.

I wish Vintagers great success in future years. It was once THE SxS shooting event of the season...

[Bill Murphy]

The lack of publicity for the Pintail Point Vintagers events has been a major point of conversation for Maryland shooters, since the events were held years ago. I guess thing have not changed. The confusing part is who suffered the most, George Hopkins, Gary Lacey and his Vintagers, or the visitors and vendors.

[John Truitt]

Hopefully it is a learning process and a growing experience.
Remember the vintage cup had all but be written off until last year. IMO for a second year event in resurrection they did a fine job and much larger and better than last years event. Again they made significant changes to address the issues brought up last year. They were/ are listening IMO.
It is my understanding that there is a new VGC president as the term that Mr Lacey wanted was only two years.
Perhaps we can collectively voice our concerns and give constructive suggestions to the new president of the VGC and to Hopkins.

[Eric Eis]

After some many years in the advertising/communications business, I can suggest that events like The Vintagers must be sure to assess and optimize two things:

Audience and Promotion.

Without a sizable and enthusiastic audience, success is difficult.

Without effective and far-reaching promotion/advertising to that audience, success is impossible.

Sadly, effective promotion and advertising cost money. And time.

I wish Vintagers great success in future years. It was once THE SxS shooting event of the season...

John,
It's very true advertising is expensive, but there was very little internet chatter on the different gun boards, Fox, SS, 16ga, Upland J. etc that don't cost money but do cost time. I would love to see this shoot become what it use to be.

[Bill Murphy]

Advertising is expensive, but to miss advertising in the Summer Double Gun Journal is ridiculous.

[John Truitt]

Double gun journal
Shooting sportsman
Clay shooting USA
Sporting clays magazine
Parker pages
LC Smith journal
Double gun BBS site
the parker site
LC Smith site
shotgun world site
Trap shooters site
16 ga site
Fox Collectors site
Flyers sent out to clubs within 200 mile radius, etc
Facebook
Virginia Sportsman
shotgun classics
etc
etc

Can they advertise or get the word out during or at the very end of the Spring Southern? (I don't know if that would be appropriate or not. May not be may be I am not the person to answer this or not)