CHE 230160 12 ga 30in bbl

[Julian Sellars]

Hello,

Trying to determine if anyone would have any insight into a CHE 12 ga numbered 230160 30 inch bbl. The database says built in 1928. The number inquiry form for a letter says they don't have any information on this particular gun, as did Chuck's response to a message I sent him.

New to this game, I ask, are there any other avenue's or resources available to help with a search for the history?

many thanks,

Sam Sellars

[Chuck Bishop]

Not likely. I also check the G&H database on all letter requests. All you can
do at this point is to go back in history for previous owners.

[Julian Sellars]

Thank you!

[Dean Romig]

I was once custodian to CHE 230760 and sadly there was no information on that one either. It was a fully optioned Parker double trap, one of only four known to exist (until mine turned up there were only three) with 30" Acme Steel barrels, and this one may have been the only fully optioned gun to have been made.





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[Julian Sellars]

Dean this gun has a fat and shortish beavertail. Single selective trigger accorder to some knolwedgeble parker folk who saw it. It has the heavy lug extra metal for a beavertail. Super clean.

[Dean Romig]

Nice! Please show us some pictures.




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[Julian Sellars]

here are a few pics

[Phil Yearout]

Pretty shotgun!

[Julian Sellars]

and a couple more

[Eric Eis]

Now that beavertail forearm is very interesting. Can you shoot a couple of pics of the end of the forend or front of it facing the barrels? And a few shots of the inside of the forend?

[Dean Romig]

That is definitely a specially ordered forend. It's pretty sad that there are no existing records for 230160





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[Julian Sellars]

forearm

[Julian Sellars]

more yet

[Dean Romig]

Can you show us the front end of the forend where the reinforcing rod's screw head shows?





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[Julian Sellars]

screw heads...is this what you mean?

[Julian Sellars]

Ok...this is what you wanted.

[Dean Romig]

No, the one in the very front of the forend, like this...


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[Dean Romig]

Perfect Justin - Thanks!

That's just what we were hoping to see.





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[Julian Sellars]

what does that tell you?

[Dean Romig]

It suggests more to the originality of the short forend.

Without factory records to prove anything about 230160, that forend, in my opinion, looks to be original.





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[Julian Sellars]

Of note, it looks like the trigger, a single selective trigger, has the numbers on it as well. can just make out the last three digits on it...

[Brian Dudley]

Wow... that forend is not much to look at by way of proportion. That must have been a VERY specific customer request as to the size and shape of it for the factory to have made it like that. But... all things point to it being completely original.

[Eric Eis]

It suggests more to the originality of the short forend.

Without factory records to prove anything about 230160, that forend, in my opinion, looks to be original.





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I agree with Dean on the forend

[Craig Budgeon]

Sam, for what it is worth I had a deceased friend who owned a Monogram grade L.C.Smith which had nearly identical specs to your CHE, 12 ga. single trigger, swamped rib, 30' brls., apparent choke in both brls., and the short fore end. Several of us didn't feel that was made by L.C. due to the checkering mismatch, inletting, difference in wood color, and difference in grain.

[Julian Sellars]

Craig, this is a friends gun I am researching; all the numbers match, even on the trigger. The wood and checkering match as well.

Who would have made the gun if not LC?

[Chuck Bishop]

Have a competent gunsmith take the wood off the forend iron and see if the serial number is stamped in the wood.

[Craig Budgeon]

Julian, the L.C. Smith was obviously altered but by a very competent craftsman. It was an early Monogram maybe 1910 sticks in my mind, with a Miller single trigger and a Silvers recoil pad. The gun was purchased between 1973-1975 out of Shotgun News and was used alot as the barrels were off face. The possibility that the same person owned both guns exist, the Smith altered to meet his requirement and the Parker ordered to meet those same requirements. Chasing info on the Smith may lead to info on the Paker.

[Gerald McPherson]

I wonder if the LC had all of the cc rubbed off as it appears to have been done to the Parker. If the same person owned both he may have not liked cc.

[Craig Budgeon]

No, the Smith had 25-30% cc but I maybe generous. The butt stock was refinished and probably the barrels. The barrels were put back on face. I have not seen the gun in 30+ years so my recollections may not be totally accurate.

[Mark Conrad]

I tried to buy that gun from Rich Wingle back around 2004. I am not sure about the year but 2004 is close. He had it at the Vintagers and the Louisville show. I latter bought a DH that had a short forend just like this C grade. I am convinced they were both original. The D grade was in much better condition but the stock was a little short for me.

[Scott Janowski]

Some Ithacas from that era had the same style short forend.
I bet with some research you will find one of the big dog shooters of that time was shooting one.

[Scott Janowski]

According to Michael McIntosh Parker Invincible #230239 has a factory letter.
However search it on the site and no records are available.
I believe whoever was involved with the Invincibles,has access to the "Lost" record book for the guns in the 230xxx range.

[Dean Romig]

That's no surprise, considering who has owned it over the years.






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[Eric Estes]

Not intending to start anything, "that book" has already been hashed to death as a subject, but has anyone outside of their family ever had unfettered access to it? Just curious and wondering if there is any chance an as yet unknown grade 9 is in that book?

[Dean Romig]

There are already three known Grade 9 Parker Invincibles. Another Invincible is always a possibility I suppose - In fact, there have even been unfounded rumors of such, but seeing is believing...

Now, the possibility of the existence of a Grade 10.... Hmmm...





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[Eric Estes]

That is a rumor I have never heard Dean.

[Dean Romig]

I'm pretty sure it was no more than speculation intended to start a furor among the ranks.

As far as I'm concerned, it's no more than a myth.





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[Scott Janowski]

The guns built in that serial number range just before the stock market crash,were ordered in prosperous times. I bet there are many interesting guns in that book. Look at the small sampling of the guns we know in that range. The ones listed are fully optioned guns. My GHE is a two barrel set, each set with a vent rib and Beavertail.