12 ga. P grade

[Carltaucci]

I have a 12 ga. Double P grade w/twist steel. Serial # puts it at 1901. Barrels measure 34 inches. Both barrels are pristine inside. The serial numbers on all the parts match, gun is in original condition,no repairs have been done. The action on this gun is extremely tight! I recently had an online collector value it at " less than $1700 " of course I'm skeptical and would like someone with more knowledge of this gun give me a second opinion. I can't find an exact match in any books, The closest I found is a PH (the H is for hammers?) grade with fluid steel barrels.
Any help would be much appreciated!
I'm having trouble uploading pics, I'll do the best I can

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Well, I am sure others will chime in, but I bet a lot of us would throw $1700 your way for that gun--it looks to be in nice shape, and with 34" barrels, that really makes it nice. More pictures would be nice, and I would get a factory letter on that one. Congrats on a nice gun.
Also, as I look closer, it appears to be a 1 frame gun--and w/ 34" tubes-wow!!

[Carltaucci]

Well, I am sure others will chime in, but I bet a lot of us would throw $1700 your way for that gun--it looks to be in nice shape, and with 34" barrels, that really makes it nice. More pictures would be nice, and I would get a factory letter on that one. Congrats on a nice gun.
Also, as I look closer, it appears to be a 1 frame gun--and w/ 34" tubes-wow!!

Ok I put up some more pics. Let me know if you want to see something I don't have up.
Thanks

[Harold Lee Pickens]

The barrels have great pattern still showing and a fishtail top lever. Too bad the grip cap is broke, but that could be easily replaced. I am sure you will get a lot more feedback on this gun by tomorrow

[Craig Larter]

I will make a guess on value (hard to do without the gun in hand). I believe your gun is a Grade 0 in that it has PT Plain Twist barrels. Only 6 were made with 34" barrels and #1 frame is unusual. Lack of original condition makes it a shooter but the features make it a sought after gun for sporting clays and vintage shoots in my opinion. I would guess $2000. Craig

[Bill Murphy]

P Grade? Is there a "P" stamped on the water table. The water table was not included in your pictures. Great gun. I want it.

[Carltaucci]

Yes there is a P stamped above the serial number. I can post another pic if you want, it should be visible in one of my photos

[Dean Romig]

Yes, please post a picture of the 'water table' (action flats) and pics of the entire lock plates.

Thanks much - nice gun!!





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[Carltaucci]

Ok I just put up seven more, I think I covered everything, thanks for your interest .

[Carltaucci]

CL.....Like I said in my original post the closest thing I found in the bluebook of gun values is a PH grade with fluid steel which was valued at $5000. Is fluid steel more desirable than twist? That's my dilemma
Thanks for the input

[Dean Romig]

PH = P-grade Hammerless so that would only be on hammerless guns. You would be hard pressed to find a Grade 1 hammer gun with fluid steel barrels. I'll bet none were made or if were, would be in the low single numbers.

I still hope to see pictures of the entire (side) lock plates... please.





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[Dean Romig]

Is fluid steel more desirable than twist?


Yes, because so few PH guns were made with fluid steel barrels.





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[Carltaucci]

Here ya go Dean...

[Bill Murphy]

There are thousands of P Grade Twist Steel guns, but only a small number of Parker Steel guns, probably all hammerless.

[Dean Romig]

Thanks very much Carl.





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[Mills Morrison]

Looks like an honest and desirable gun to me. Congratulations! Hope you consider joining PGCA

[Eric Eis]

I think someone is fishing...................:whistle: Just my 2 cents :rolleyes:

[Carltaucci]

No sir

[Harold Lee Pickens]

First I've had to look at this thread since posting on it last night--told you it would generate some discussion. Would love to shoot that gun on sporting clays.
Do you know it's weight? I'll just take a wild a** guess that its coked full/full.

[Steve Huffman]

Do ya think the butt plate is original ?

[Carltaucci]

I'm no expert here but it looks original to me

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Butt plate looks original to me--same as on my 16 ga O grade hammer gun w/ twist barrels

[Dean Romig]

Judging by the amount of wear to the rest of the gun I would say the butt plate is a replacement - look at the toe where it was shaped to fit the stock.





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[Craig Larter]

So after all this conversation what grade is this gun and what is it's value in the current market? It is listed in the serialization book as a Grade 0 with PT barrels. The locks have zig-zag engraving found on late Grade 0 hammer guns and Grade 1 hammer guns. The water table is stamped P which would indicate a Grade 1 hammer gun. Could it be that the only way the order for 34" barrels could be satisfied was to provide plain twist barrels on a Grade 1 gun?

[Carltaucci]

Good eye Dean...The rest of the plate looks untouched. Could those marks be from sliding the gun into and out of something?
Here are some close-ups

[Dean Romig]

IMO the toe of the stock was badly chipped and the butt plate was badly fractured necessitating this amateur repair with a replacement butt plate.





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[Dean Romig]

The fact that it is stamped with a P, all else is inconsequential. It is a P or Grade 1.





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[Dean Romig]

My guess is that there were no more 34" barrels in Laminated Steel necessitating the use of Twist Steel. The vast majority of hammerless Grade 1 guns of that era also had Twist Steel, leading us to believe Laminated Steel barrels were no longer available.





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[Steve Huffman]

Good eye Dean...The rest of the plate looks untouched. Could those marks be from sliding the gun into and out of something?
Here are some close-ups

That is why I asked the Question The plate still looks over sized where it meets the comb and you can almost see some file marks in the wood ! Still would love to swing them barrels I question if stock has been trimmed a bit

[Bill Murphy]

Austin Hogan's old skeet gun, #104,043, was also one of the rare P Grade marked hammer guns. It is a #3 frame, 32", 12 gauge, Twist Steel gun that does not appear in the Serialization Book. It appears that P Grade marked hammer guns appeared in a very narrow period of Parker production. The next gun in the SB is also a 34" hammer gun!

[Wayne Owens]

Bill, I have a P stamped 8 gauge hammer gun made in 1894 with a 79,xxx serial number.

[Dean Romig]

Wayne, what is the barrel steel type on that 8?





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[Wayne Owens]

Dean,
The 8 gauge barrels are 34" Twist Steel.

[Dean Romig]

Thanks Wayne.





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