Why are blue finishes more durable tha CC?

[Craig Larter]

Why does rust blue on barrels generally hold up better to wear versus CC?? Do blued finishes penetrate deeper into the metal?? Why does blue on Parker lower grade trigger guards (Trojan, VH, PH etc.) wear so quickly??

[Dean Romig]

As I understand it, the rusting of the barrels causes microscopic pitting allowing the bluing to lay deeper in the steel than if the surface was simply smooth.
Color case hardening creates a layer of carbon particles to adhere to the smooth surface of the steel. The hardness goes a few thousandths into the steel but the particles creating the color are only on the surface.





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[Brian Dudley]

Guards are nitre blued vs barrels are rust blued. Rust blue is more durable.

[Craig Larter]

Brain: Thanks, is nitre blue faster and less costly process?

[Craig Budgeon]

Another way of expressing it is that rusting bluing is achieved by applying multiple layers of rust which is carded off until the desired depth of blue is achieved. Case color is a pleasant side affect from the necessary process of casehardening and has very little durability unless the parts are externally lacquered. Nitre blue is another heat related process which has little durability and little depth but is inexpensive for manufacturers

[Bill Holcombe]

In some ways CCH is more dureable. Even if the case coors are not visible anymore the protection remains. Not really what you were mening I know but i couldn't help myself.

[Scot Cardillo]

Another way of expressing it is that rusting bluing is achieved by applying multiple layers of rust which is carded off until the desired depth of blue is achieved. Case color is a pleasant side affect from the necessary process of casehardening and has very little durability unless the parts are externally lacquered. Nitre blue is another heat related process which has little durability and little depth but is inexpensive for manufacturers

Forgive me if I'm commenting beyond the intent of this thread but, I have yet to find a lacquer or, any other coating that can be applied in a manner that comes anywhere close to replicating the beauty of engraving upon bare metal.

Now, to topic - are there any manufacturers that rust blued trigger guards and other appointments, save screw-heads, in general practice? I'm 'guessing' Parker? The guards and SBP's on my PR's appear to have the soft glow of rust bluing.

[Craig Budgeon]

Lacquer is clear and protects the CC to a point. Marlin used it on there L.C. Smiths and some rifles , Turnbull has used it, and Galazan has sold it. Oh you'll be able to see your engraving just fine if its used on an engraved gun, provided you don't choose a 5 yo to apply it. Perhaps Win. 21's, Tobin, and some Bakers used a hot blue on receivers and trigger guards but I doubt it was rust blue ------- to labor intensive.

[Brian Dudley]

All blued parts on (meriden) Parker guns other than the barrels were nitre blued. It is a fast process. Much more so than rust blue, but far less durable.

[Scot Cardillo]

Lacquer is clear and protects the CC to a point. Marlin used it on there L.C. Smiths and some rifles , Turnbull has used it, and Galazan has sold it. Oh you'll be able to see your engraving just fine if its used on an engraved gun, provided you don't choose a 5 yo to apply it. Perhaps Win. 21's, Tobin, and some Bakers used a hot blue on receivers and trigger guards but I doubt it was rust blue ------- to labor intensive.

To my eye the application of a protective film brings forth a lack of third dimensional depth and that inconsistent depth of field takes away from the artistic realism of the scenes found in the Parker style of engraving. Parker engraving screams nostalgia in a manner that "takes you there" so to speak, to me. Perhaps I'm just a shade critical or, perhaps perfection is my curse but, somehow the engraved lines filled with "something" seems to detract.

Please, share the material that you use and, your technique.

[Jerry Harlow]

My two cents on the clear lacquer, I've got a couple of guns with either good original colors or ones that have been redone. Wanting to use the guns and not wear them, I used clear "brushing" lacquer which is available at Lowes. Cheap, about $10 a quart which will do a thousand guns.

Here is what I found. If there is no lacquer there, it goes on perfectly and smoothes out streak-free with an artist brush. If there is a existing coat, it streaks because the new breaks down the old. The solution is to remove old coats which one of the refinished guns had. When I nitre blue trigger guards I can protect them with a coat of clear and it makes the blue deeper and offers protection so I don't have to do them over. It will wear through eventually. Remove it and clear them again.

[Craig Budgeon]

Scott you have 3 choices for lacquering CC parts. You can acquire lacquer( Galazan, Brownells, or Midwest), camelhair brush (Hobby Lobby) and mineral spirits. Clean the parts in mineral spirits and brush the lacquer on evenly. J.A. Early has a well thought procedure. Finally you can do it my way which is to clean the parts thoroughly, mask all internal surfaces, and spray the parts with Krylon clear lacquer. Scott, your choice

[Bill Murphy]

Whether we like lacquer coating or not, it was used at the factory by Ithaca, Fox, and others. Not sure about Parker.

[Scot Cardillo]

Scott you have 3 choices for lacquering CC parts. You can acquire lacquer( Galazan, Brownells, or Midwest), camelhair brush (Hobby Lobby) and mineral spirits. Clean the parts in mineral spirits and brush the lacquer on evenly. J.A. Early has a well thought procedure. Finally you can do it my way which is to clean the parts thoroughly, mask all internal surfaces, and spray the parts with Krylon clear lacquer. Scott, your choice

Thanks CraigB

Guess I'm in the camp that just can't seem to find anything more gratifying then watching the colors go gray and the engraving coming to life. Dog doesn't seem to care one bit so, I won't either :cheers:

(Sorry for the hijack CraigL)

[John Allen]

Brian can correct me if I am wrong on this,but the trigger guard and other parts were nitre blued for cost and because they are not of as high carbon steel as the barrels and don't take rust blue as well.Also,the main purpose of case hardening is to provide a hard outer shell around the action but still allow the action to flex on recoil.If the action is overhardened it becomes brittle and subject to cracking.The colors are just a byproduct of the process.

[Richard Flanders]

My take on blueing vs case hardening is that blueing is a barrier to chemical reactivity, ie, it's an oxide coating that is unreactive to further rusting, while case hardening is basically an armor plating designed to prevent physical wear from abrasion. I'd assume that the extra carbon in the hardened layer would also add some protection from chemical wear as pure carbon is also chemically unreactive. Do I have this right? Where are our real chemists here??

[Craig Budgeon]

Casehardening is not a plating, instead you are adding carbon to the the surface of the part chemically by the aid of heat ( 1375-1450F) and time. Hardening takes place when the part is quenched. Quenching solutions vary widely and are still secret when people are trying to achieve colors too. The depth of case hardening can vary from>0003" (speedcase) to as much as .030" (carburize). The purpose of cashardening is to maintain strength with a soft core and wear resistance with a hard surface. Case color provides no benefit but eye appeal to the part. An addendum to bluing: If you have a welded part and you rust blue it the weld will not show, if you chose to nitre blue it, hot blue it, or oxide it then the weld will show.

[Richard Flanders]

I did not mean that case hardening is an actual plating. I should have said that it is effectively a plating, which it is. It's a hard layer that is over and protects a softer layer.

[Bruce Day]

I did not mean that case hardening is an actual plating. I should have said that it is effectively a plating, which it is. It's a hard layer that is over and protects a softer layer.

I did not take it any other way. I thought your statement was clear and accurate.