Field Load for 10 ga. ?

[Larry Baer]

I recently acquired a Parker 10 ga hammer gun, serial #42873 . I sent it off to the gunsmith and he told me it would shoot fine. I'm sure this has been asked be fore but what is a field load for the 10 ga for pheasants, turkeys, squirrels, ect.? I load 12 ga black powder loads for another gun. Can I just shoot a square load or is there something in print somewhere?

Thanks, Larry

[Rick Losey]

Go to the shotshell reloading forum and download Peter's great spread sheet of short ten loads

[Larry Baer]

Thanks- I downloaded it. That is a great resource.

[Dave Noreen]

Back in the 1880s when 42873 was made, the big companies like Union Metallic Cartridge Co., Winchester, etc. offered empty brass and paper cases

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and a lot of shooters were stuffing all kinds of loads in brass shells for themselves.

Loaded ammunition came from independent loading companies like Chamberlin
Cartridge Co.

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Note the "special" loads specifically for Parker Bros. guns of that era.

Most metropolitan areas had companies or individuals that provided loaded shotgun shells. Here in Spokane we had Ware Bros.

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Over in Portland, Oregon it was Honeyman Hardware, while in Seattle it was Piper & Taft and Hardy Hall. The big loaders in California were Selby and California Powder Works.

[Larry Baer]

That's very interesting. Thanks. That 4 1/4 dram load looks like it would have been a pretty stout load.

[Dave Noreen]

When Union Metallic Cartridge Co. began offering factory loaded shotgun shells, circa 1891, They offered 10-gauge shells loaded with as much as 5 drams of powder and 1 1/4 ounce of shot. By the 1893 catalog where the SMOKELESS and TRAP shells loaded with smokeless powders were charted separately from the CLUB black powder shells, the heaviest smokeless powder loads offered were 3 3/4 drams pushing 1 1/4 ounces of shot. For 1905, UMC upped the maximum 10-gauge load in their ARROW shell to 4 drams of bulk smokeless powder pushing 1 1/4 ounce of shot. The next year UMC upped the maximum 10-gauge load in their ARROW shell again to 4 1/4 drams of bulk smokeless powder (or 34 grains of dense smokeless powder such as Infallible or Ballistite) pushing 1 1/4 ounce of shot. That remained the heaviest smokeless powder 10-gauge load offered until Western Cartridge Co. introduced their high velocity, progressive burning powder, Super-X Super-Ten load of 1 5/8 ounce of shot.

[Larry Baer]

5 Drams? Wow, this is all very interesting. I have some things on order from BPI. This brings to light a whole new world of possibilities.

[Victor Wasylyna]

I like the following, which I gathered from this site:

1 1/8 oz. - 19 grains of Red Dot

1 1/4 oz. - 27 grains of Green Dot

1 3/8 oz. - 24 grains of Unique

Lead or bismuth.

All use a Remington hull cut to size (Chedites also work), Winchester 209 primer, SP-10 wad, and a 16 gauge fiber filler wad (about 1/4 inch) in the cup under the shot.

The last one was tested (http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=16861&highlight=Short+bismuth), but the first two are untested (to my knowledge).

-Victor

[Paul Harm]

4 1/2 drams and 1 1/4oz of shot with the old guns that had 3" or so of drop would most certainly jar any loose fillings out of your mouth. I just shoot clay birds, but 21grs of GD and 1 1/16oz of shot is about all I like. The 19 of RD and 1oz of shot is also nice.

[Larry Baer]

Thank you for the help. This is all new to me. The 10 gauge seems like a big step up from the 12. I got my gun back today from the gunsmith. Now I need to find some empties so I can load some shells and try it out.

[Paul Harm]

Larry, go here and buy the Remington hulls https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!c=13
part # RMUPH10U
BP square loads are great, but the plastic shells don't last but a couple of reloads before they get pin hole burns through the plastic just above the brass. If I were shooting a lot of BP I'd buy the brass shells. Those will last forever even though they cost about $7.50 each. I keep reediting my reply. I got thinking [ dangerous ] - the Rem's cost about .45 each - 3 reloads of BP would be 4 shots total. Four shells at four shots each would be about the same price. I guess one would have to determine just how much BP shells he would shoot before buying the brass shells. Also, you don't want to use plastic wads with BP weather it's in a brass shell or plastic. You may have already knew that if you've been shooting smoke.

[Alan B. Webber]

4 1/2 drams and 1 1/4oz of shot with the old guns that had 3" or so of drop would most certainly jar any loose fillings out of your mouth. I just shoot clay birds, but 21grs of GD and 1 1/16oz of shot is about all I like. The 19 of RD and 1oz of shot is also nice.

I've been loading 4 1/2 drams of Pyrodex RS in full length short brass cases with 1 1/4 Oz of lead or bismuth. Ducks and geese can't survive it. The other day I was at a live pigeon shoot shooting the same loads at practice pigeons. A friend had a chronograph so I ran a load through it. 1325 fps! Probably more than I need so I'm going to drop the load to 3 3/4 drams, toss in some more shot and see what happens. The recoil never bothers me because the gun is a #6 frame and weighs 14 pounds.
I think I got the 4 1/2 dram load off an old Parker loading chart. That says a lot about how shooting was in the old days.

[William Davis]

I like 23 grs of Green Dot & 1 1/14 oz of # 6 for crows. Cut down Federal hull Remington SP 10 wad with a 16 G fiber wad in the shot cup. About 1150 FPS with mild recoil. Victor posted tested data on this load few weeks ago that’s worth a look. I think it would be a good Pheasant or Squirrel load too.

2nd Pauls comment on plastic and Black Powder, not a good mix hull or wad. I load BP 12 G with Paper Hulls and stacked fiber wads & good results. If I wanted to load BP 10s would look for paper hulls, nearly impossible, or use readily available Brass with fiber wads.

William

[Eric Johanen]

Black powder loads can be put up in any of the 3 available hulls. Do it all the time. When your hulls are starting to look a bit used up, one last hurrah with black is a good way to dispose of them. Plastic build up or burn through not a problem but use only card and fiber wad column. A plastic shot cup or wad will melt and leave material in the barrels. Roll or 6 point crimp and use a overshot card if the hull mouths are a bit ragged to secure the shot. One time load and shoot and toss into the barrel. I generally use 4 dram 1&1/4 or 4&1/4 dram 1&1/8. Impressive and break the clays decisively. Good show for the crowd as the concussion, smoke and fire from the load reminds one of a battleship firing a gun. Great fun and clean up by hot soap and water and dry and oil. I get 8-10 smokeless reloads on my hulls and then a final round up. I do prefer and use paper hulls in 12 and 16 ga. when I can find them but plastic hulls work fine for black powder.

[Alan B. Webber]

Yes black powder is a crowd pleaser and Black powder smokes better than Pyrodex.
I have a crate of RST hulls I want to reload in smokeless. I think I'll use red dot because I have a lot of it. I just need to come up with a wad. Instead of crimping I might just glue a topwad on them. I'll load BP in them when they're almost done as my full length cnc machined brass cases won't fit in my hammergun anymore and I don't know how those can be resized. Fortunately @$9.00 a pop they still fit in my hammerless gun. I really expected them to go forever.

[William Davis]

I have 20 RMC 32/40 cases used for breech seating in my Schuetzen Rifle. Been using them since 1996 when the rifle was built. One case will go about 100 loads with very light loads, one Offhand match, then the breech block gets hard to close. Gets stiff I switch off to the next case. After working through all 20 tried to size them like a normal drawn case. It’s difficult turned brass does not size like drawn.

I chuck them in my lathe take about .002 or less off and they chamber fine. My guess is 12 G turned case being larger diameter would be more difficult to size. Don’t see why you could not do the same, turn just a bit off. They are a lot thicker and stronger than paper or plastic shells.

William

[Paul Harm]

You may have to anneal them.

[William Davis]

Paul aneal did not help my 32/40 cases most of the expansion is at the base were the metal is solid. Of course Shotshell may be different. Concencus among Single Shot rifle shooters turned RMC cases don’t perform like regular brass cases. If I was buying 10 G Brass hulls I would look for drawn brass. While turning got them to chamber I pretty much gave up on the RMCs in rifles. RMC at its best something that’s impossible to find elsewhere.

William

[Alan B. Webber]

I have 20 RMC 32/40 cases used for breech seating in my Schuetzen Rifle. Been using them since 1996 when the rifle was built. One case will go about 100 loads with very light loads, one Offhand match, then the breech block gets hard to close. Gets stiff I switch off to the next case. After working through all 20 tried to size them like a normal drawn case. It’s difficult turned brass does not size like drawn.

I chuck them in my lathe take about .002 or less off and they chamber fine. My guess is 12 G turned case being larger diameter would be more difficult to size. Don’t see why you could not do the same, turn just a bit off. They are a lot thicker and stronger than paper or plastic shells.

William
That's a great idea because at the base right at the rim is where the extrusion is.You can barely feel it running your finger over it.
Even if there was a full length sizer for full length 10 ga cases it may not get that far. Do you find taking them down like that weakens the case?
I think it's interesting that there is that much difference between a 1901 and a 1903 chamber, both the same frame sizes.

[William Davis]

I don’t think reducing .002 or less in front of the rim makes any difference to the cases strength,but thinking and knowing sure are not the same.

I have to do the same when loading for a other single shot chambered in .25 Kraig, Modern brass does not need it old .30 US Government brass does. When I say about .oo2 what I really mean is cut and try until it fits. Very little metal comes off, as a frame of reference aluminum soda can is about .006 3 times the thickness I remove. Problem is you need the gun beside the lathe to make the fit. I would not recomend reducing the thickness in the cases hollow body.

Two guns same maker two chamber fits is very common. You don’t notice it in shotguns due to larger tolerance Rifles with tighter fits its obvious. Chamber reamers wear, different metals cut different, way the operator runs the tool etc.

If you can find a good lathe operator and have your hammer and Hammerless barrels to check as he goes it’s a easy job to fit those turned cases. To be clear fit the cases don’t mess with the barrel chambers. People often try to make rifle chambers match with poor results.

On sizing it’s possable to make new or modify factory sizers that go all the way down but sizing solid brass near the cartridge rim is almost impossible. They work on the hollow sections don't do much to solid. My short 10s size well in a Ponsess Warren die, modern cases folded head all the way to the rim,no solid sections

William

[Paul Harm]

At one time I had a Parker with 2 5/8 chambers that were " stepped " at the end of the chamber. Also have one with 2 7/8" chambers. I cut shells to fit each gun and that gave me problems keeping the two sizes separated when loading. So I just shoot the 2 3/4 till the ends are ragged, then trim to 2 5/8. Takes less spacer wads and they work great in the longer chambered gun. Might even go to 2 1/2 to get a bit more life out of the expensive 10ga shells. Just a idea.

[Alan B. Webber]

My brass cases that I shoot in both my 10 ga guns have obviously fired formed to the larger of the two chambers. Now they don't fit in the smaller chamber. William rightly said the reamers of those days and the operators using them just didn't cut everything the same. He's also right saying cutting a little on a lathe would be an easy fix. Except I don't have a lathe.
So my fix is going to be cull out shells that still may fit the smaller chamber and buy some new ones for the larger then segregate my shells. I can't mix them with both guns anymore. I'll just notch the rim on them to tell them apart.
It ought to make an interesting duck/goose hunt when I take both guns out.
Thanks for all your insight.