Extended chamber lengths

[Rick Riddell]

Would Parker have extended chamber lengths at the factory at the request of the owner as early as 1914? Would these mods show up in the research letters? Better yet, did they make 2 3/4 inch barrels in the early 1900's?

[Dave Noreen]

Yes to all of the above. However, keep in mind that prior to the introduction of high velocity, progressive burning powder loads in the early 1920s, the longer shells didn't carry a heavier payload then could be had in the 2 3/4 inch shells, but more/better wadding, which many serious Pigeon and trap shooters believed beneficial.

As early as an 1885 Union Metallic Cartridge Co. catalog, before they even offered factory loaded shotgun shells, they offered paper NPEs in both 10- and 12-gauges in lengths from 2 5/8 inch to 3 1/4 inch. By the turn of the century 16-gauge loads could be had in the "standard" 2 9/16 inch shell or 2 3/4, 2 7/8 and 3-inch lengths. The 20-gauge loads could be had in the "standard" 2 1/2 inch shell or 2 3/4, 2 7/8 and 3-inch lengths.

[Bill Holcombe]

I have a DH that i posted recently from 1900 thay lettered with 2 3/4 chambers.

[Rick Riddell]

I wonder if all 2 3/4 chambers were lettered, I recently received a 1903 manufactured GH and was told the chambers were 2 3/4 and they were original to the barrels but wasn't lettered as 2 3/4. It was sent back in 1914 for dent removal, reblue, locks tightened and thought maybe the chambers were opened at that time. But seeing how you could get 2 3/4 prior to 1900, the gun most likely came with 2 3/4 chambers! Kudos to everyone that helped!

[Frank Srebro]

Let's look at 1915 (pre-progressive powder). The E.K. Tryon Company of Phila listed (15) 12-gauge shells loaded with bulk and dense smokeless powders, and (12) of them were in 2-5/8" hulls and with a max of 1-1/8 ounce of shot, The other (3) shells were 2-3/4" and loaded with 1-1/4 ounce of shot. The (15) included the popular Repeater, Nitro Club and Climax brands. This is actual data directly from the EKT catalogue and it gets into what we read here and there, that the "practice" was to cut chambers 1/8" short (2-5/8") for use with 2-3/4" shells (better gas seal, etc). I personally don't believe that ..... if that was the practice, where are the American guns with 2-1/2" 12-gauge chambers that were "cut short" for use with the far more popular 2-5/8" shells? Anyone who doubts this, please reply here and cite the maker and model of any period American-made shotguns with 12-gauge 2-1/2" chambers that you've personally measured.

Yep, I understand that 12-gauge 2-3/4" bulk/dense shells could be fired in 2-5/8" chambers and with a rise in pressure that was typically within the design parameters of period guns, but it's my belief that 2-3/4" factory chambers (when ordered) in the pre-progressive powder days - earlier than about 1922 - were generally intended for regular use with up to 1-1/4 ounce of shot in 2-3/4" shells and for ducks, pigeons, turkeys, large furred game, etc.

[Daryl Corona]

I have an 1892 DH that lettered with 2 3/4" chambers and 3 1/2lb trigger pull with 32" tubes. More than likely set up for pigeon shooting.

I think you are right on with your theory Frank.

[Bill Murphy]

PB rechambered a pair of eight gauges to 4" or 4 1/4".

[Dean Romig]

I wonder if all 2 3/4 chambers were lettered, I recently received a 1903 manufactured GH and was told the chambers were 2 3/4 and they were original to the barrels but wasn't lettered as 2 3/4. It was sent back in 1914 for dent removal, reblue, locks tightened and thought maybe the chambers were opened at that time. But seeing how you could get 2 3/4 prior to 1900, the gun most likely came with 2 3/4 chambers! Kudos to everyone that helped!

To be safe Rick, without documented evidence that the work was actually performed by Parker Bros., you might consider measuring wall thickness at the forward end of the chamber where the forcing cone begins.





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[Rick Riddell]

I had set the barrels out to measured and checked, I asked about the 2 3/4 chambers and it was checked and told it was original to the barrels, but I didnt have any documentation or at least wasnt sure if chambers were even part of the research letters and that peaked my interest in date and time when chambers would have been made in 2 3/4, seeing how this gun was manufactured in 1903. Wall thickness was for me at least really good considering the age and uncertainty. I can pm you the email if you were interested. But I was more curious about if chamber length was in the letters as well as in the repair report if it were sent back for repairs. My learning curve is steep, and I appreciate all the help!

[Dave Noreen]

In the book The Parker Story the Remington vintage specification sheets on pages 164 to 169 call for a chamber 1/8-inch shorter than the shell for which it is intended. Also in the 1930's there were a couple of articles by A.P. Curtis in The American Rifleman (July 1936 and March 1938) on the virtue of short chambers. A.P. Curtis had several decades in the industry by that time, having worked at Parker Bros., Ithaca Gun Co., Hunter Arms Co. and Marlin.

[Chuck Bishop]

If the chamber size is listed in the original order or is listed in the stock book, it's put in the research letter. I don't recall ever seeing a gun sent back to Parker to have the chambers lengthened but I guess it's possible, I just don't remember seeing a return for this. Remember, the order books, for the most part, ended in Dec 1919 however there are some repair order books that go later than 1919.

[Dean Romig]

Not necessary Rick - I was only concerned for safety reasons.





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[Bill Murphy]

The 4" chambered eight gauges were discussed on this forum. They were William Wagner guns.

[Jeff Kuss]

54653 was shipped to William Wagner on July 18, 1889. It was returned to Parker on August 9 1889 By Wagner to lengthen chambers to 4 in. There was no charge.