Are Grade 1's all but Forgotten?

[Kurt Sauers]

there doesn't seem to be a lot of talk about them of even see many. So many grade 0's out there. Everyone seems to skip them and go pretty much right to 2's or even 3's. Are there not many around? Are they worth looking for? Or isn't there enough difference from the 0's to really bother?

[edgarspencer]

It's simply a matter of the numbers. All grade 1 guns, Lifter, Top lever, and hammerless didn't even come to 20,000, but there were nearly 120,000 Grade 0 guns.

There were just over 15,000 hammerless Grade 1 guns, which were either the PH(E) or the 10ga variety, the NH. This includes only 1340 steel barreled guns.
Compare that to almost 80,000 VH guns alone.

Grade 1 guns are far from ignored. It's only because there are far fewer that you don't hear as much about them.

[Craig Larter]

In 12ga it made much more sense for the entry level buyer to purchase a 0 grade during the hammerless era unless the customer wanted a 10 ga Parker, then the only choice was a grade 1. That may be why many large frame 10's show up as N or grade 1's. From my perspective, in the modern day, I much prefer twist barrels over Vulcan steel but not the buyer of 100 years ago.

[Kurt Sauers]

In 12ga it made much more sense for the entry level buyer to purchase a 0 grade during the hammerless era unless the customer wanted a 10 ga Parker, then the only choice was a grade 1. That may be why many large frame 10's show up as N or grade 1's. From my perspective, in the modern day, I much prefer twist barrels over Vulcan steel but not the buyer of 100 years ago.


Could you explain your preference for twist barrels?

[Craig Larter]

They are just more appealing to my eye versus steel barrels and just as durable.

[Dave Noreen]

I don't recall who did it, but someone had a display of all the gauges in Grade 1 hammerless guns in the PGCA tent at one of The Vintage Cups at Pintail Pointe. Maybe it is because my Grandfather's gun was a heavy PH-Grade 12-gauge, of 1890 vintage, I've always thought of them as the quintessential Parker. Grandpa's gun passed to my Father's older brother and is still in that family, so I got this NH to make up for it --

55020

55021

[Craig Larter]

Dave that is a beautiful example, way more gun than a VH in my opinion. Here is my PH bargain which I was able to purchase for under 1K plus it came wit a leg-of-mutton case.

[edgarspencer]

To this day, I remember walking from the hotel to a German restaurant, with a couple of guys with me on a business trip to Cleveland. We walked by a pawn shop, so I went in for a quick browse. I asked the owner if I could see the 20ga. P grade. It was $100. I remember how clean it was, so when we got to the restaurant, I called my dad to ask for his advice. I remember his exact words; "No one in their right mind would pay that much for a gun you can't shoot." Clearly a victim of the smear campaign, but I have forgiven him.

[Rick Losey]

and another

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=635&pictureid=7426

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=635&pictureid=7432

[edgarspencer]

and another. :banghead:oops, my bad. wrong gun. still, love that twist

[Bill Murphy]

The person who displayed the outstanding group of Grade 1 Parkers at early shows was Gary Carmichael.

[wayne goerres]

Someone just wanted to show off his gun didn't he Edger.

[edgarspencer]

Actually, it isn't mine anymore. That's the one that I just sold.

[Craig Budgeon]

Kurt offer a PH 410 on this sight and I am sure you will get more responses than you care to answer.

[Kurt Sauers]

Kurt offer a PH 410 on this sight and I am sure you will get more responses than you care to answer.


I've got a couple 410's. How much should I ask? :corn:

[Craig Budgeon]

If you had 1 of the 3 examples known I believe you would find interested parties if you began with an asking price of $50,000.

[Dean Romig]

This might be one of my favorite Grade-1 hammerless Parkers.

It belongs to a good friend in VT. The barrel flat is stamped T for Twist Steel yet the top rib is marked Damascus Steel, when in reality, the barrels are Laminated Steel.

The explanation for all of this is found in the research letter where it is stated "Use customer's barrels."





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[Russ Jackson]

Dean ,that gun is beautiful !

[Brian Dudley]

It bugs me so much when i see the polishing off of a barrel lug after refinishing go down onto the barrel flats. They didnt leave the factory that way, why do it now?

[Dean Romig]

?





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[Brian Dudley]

The second photo in your string shows the lugs polished off onto the barrel flats. I see this all to much on refinished barrels and it just isnt good.

[Dean Romig]

My only reason for posting those pictures was simply so that people could appreciate the interesting and unusual features of the gun, not necessarily to elicit a critique of its perceived faults.
It is a pretty 12 gauge on a 1 frame that feels and handles like a 0-frame 16. Wish it was mine.





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[edgarspencer]

It bugs me so much when i see the polishing off of a barrel lug after refinishing go down onto the barrel flats. They didnt leave the factory that way, why do it now?

I have a 0 grade 12 ga TL that most definitely has not been refinished, and the inner flats are bright steel, and though I wouldn't characterize them as 'polished', they are certainly 'ground'. The outer flats are dark, matching the overall barrel finish.
I believe the unfinished lugs are significantly wider than the finished lug, and are only ground when being fitted to the receiver, and certainly after the barrel finishing has been completed.
Dave might comment on the radius at the junction of lug to flats, on rough barrels, but I can understand why this surface gets a ground finish.

[Rich Anderson]

I have two grade 1 guns both 16's and both hammer guns and both are wonderful guns to shoot. The only difference between a grade 1 and a grade 7 is cosmetic or so I've been told.

[George Lander]

I need to learn how to take gun pictures like that

Best Regards. George

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Yes I like twist barrels too! This is a 20 gauge hammer gun P grade, Gary

[Rich Anderson]

SWEET:bowdown: Lets see some more of this beauty. There can't be many of those around, do you know how many were produced?

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Rich not many, Will check into it further and post some more photos, I am out the door to the dentist for cleaning get to the photos this eve, Gary

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Rich, After looking in the Parker Story Volume 1 under grades I do not see but 1 top lever 20 gauge, under grade 1 or P grade and it is supposed to be laminated barrels, this gun has twist barrels and is choked full and fuller, I personally have not seen another P grade top lever 20 gauge , the serial number probably makes it close to the last one made like it. More photos

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

couple more

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Rich, The letter with it states it was ordered by Shreve & Barber Co. of San Francisco on Oct 12th 1912, the letter on the gun states LOP 14-1/4 DAH 2-1/2, no DAC recorded barrels are 28" plain steel, as you can see the gun is stamped "P" for the grade. I think this gun must have been made up after the Top Lever hammer guns had fallen from fever, It is a late gun, Gary

[Rich Anderson]

What a wonderful gun. I can see the smoke from the targets as a load of #8's centers them on a classic left to right crossing pair:rotf: