Half Frame Value

[Bill Murphy]

Since we see very few half frame Parkers offered for sale, most of us have no idea of their value above Parkers of identical features and condition with more common frames. What does a field used VHE or GHE half frame Parker sell for? How much premium is placed on the frame size?

[Larry Frey]

Bill,
I'm sure some people (especially the seller) would put a premium on a gun with a half frame but for me frame size is about the last thing I think about when considering the purchase of a gun. That would also apply to O frame 16's, one frame 12's, etc. If I find a gun that I would like to buy but the seller is seeking a premium due to frame size I just keep looking.

[Dean Romig]

To each his own...
There were a great many 0-frame sixteens and possibly even more 1-frame twelves but there were a scant few, by comparison, 1/2-frame twelves ever made. Most of them were as much as 1/2 lb. lighter than the equivalent gun on a 1 1/2-frame and very few were heavier, from what I've read.

Me? - I would place a premium on a 1/2-frame twelve over a 1 1/2-frame twelve, all other things being equal of course.

[Dave Suponski]

I know of a GHE 26" 1/2 frame gun that was redone by Del Grego. A very nice gun but redone non-the-less. The seller want's $10,000 for it. I think he will have it for a looong time. I would think the same gun in the same condition on a 1 1/2 frame would be worth about $4,000-$4,500?

[Ray Masciarella]

I don't know enough to have ever wondered about this topic but tell me how rare is a 1 frame 12 ga? I have two AH's circa 1890-1891 that are 1 frame. One is a two barrel set and the other was sent back to Parker for an additional 12 set around 1898 and to Rem (late 30's?) for a 16 ga set (this set being steel and the other being damascus). Is it a big deal to have a 1 frame 12 ga?

Ray

[Larry Frey]

To each his own...
There were a great many 0-frame sixteens and possibly even more 1-frame twelves but there were a scant few, by comparison, 1/2-frame twelves ever made. Most of them were as much as 1/2 lb. lighter than the equivalent gun on a 1 1/2-frame and very few were heavier, from what I've read.

Me? - I would place a premium on a 1/2-frame twelve over a 1 1/2-frame twelve, all other things being equal of course.

Dean,
I think that the half frames rarity may result in some increased value on a high condition or perhaps high grade gun. Bill's example was a field used VHE or GHE for which the only extra value might be in weight reduction from zero to maybe a few ounces which to me dose not translate to many, if any $$$.

[Dean Romig]

Larry, I agree with you on the minimal increase in value of a low grade, field used (only if that term translates to 'worn and in need of restoration').

Ray, the 1-frame twelve, like the 0-frame sixteen, was probably intended to be a game gun, generally for upland shooting as they are generally lighter in weight. There were a lot of them produced but when the 1 1/2-frame was introduced the 1-frame was, for all intents and purposes, pretty much dropped. The 1-frame twelve is desirable and certainly the higher grades like yours.... more desirable still.

[Ray Masciarella]

Thanks, Dean. Best-Ray

[Russ Jackson]

Hi Guys ,I would like to add my two cents that no one else has mentioned ,But if I am correct aren't all of the 1/2 Frame guns ,only from the Remington era ,or am I wrong on this ,If I am correct ,I believe I have read where some would put a premium on the gun being from the Remington Era with or without the smaller frame size ? I really like the O Frame guns and if I find a nice 16 on the smaller frame , it gets my attention more so than the # 1 frame guns do ,also ,I have never had the opportunity to handle a 1/2 Frame ,but I would think they would be nice ! I have also read the 1/2 frame guns generally have nicer wood for the grade of the gun ,is this fact ? Russ

[Pete Lester]

Speak of the devil. This DHE just showed up on GB. Seller states gun is original. Looks to be some non original stampings on the barrel flats and barrels. One appears to be a Remington repair code (Mar 1950 I think), perhaps Remington did the other stamps?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=180275049

[Rich Anderson]

Personally I wouldn't spend the extra cash for a 1/2 12. Everyone I have ever seen was listed at $10K +. For my money I'd go with a 16. I have 1 frame 16's that are lighter than some of my 0 frame 16's.

[Bruce Day]

A study of 1/2 frame guns was made quite a few years ago and the results published in the Parker Pages. The weight tables therein disproved the common notion that 1/2 frame guns are lighter. The only truth to the lighter weight theory was that 1/2 frame 26" guns are lighter than 1 1/2 frame guns of the same barrel length. 28's were substantially equal weight. The study compared 1/2 frames to 1 1/2 frames. I don't recall it including 1 frame guns, that would have been interesting. The weight difference was a matter of ounces.

Unfortunately I don't have access to the PP's now, but I would post a scan of the PP table. I'm presently in Huntington WV en route to the BSA Natl Jamboree.

[Bruce Day]

Rich Anderson's comment is a good one, as the light 12's are meant to shoot a 1 ounce load, and a 16 shoots a 7/8 to 1 oz load nicely.

[Larry Frey]

My favorite bird gun is a DHE 12x26 on a one frame that I picked up from a Julia auction a few years ago. That gun letters at 6# 4oz and I doubt a half frame gun would be much lighter. To be honest I don't think I would want a 12 gage any lighter than that.

[Dean Romig]

Pete, that certainly looks original and unmolested to me... and Runge engraved too.

[Dave Suponski]

Russ, I answer to your question the 1/2 frame was designed by Parker Bros. but was not put into use until the Remington era. Dealers and owners put a premium on these gun's more out of rarity than light weight as we have documented 1/2 frame gun's that are nominal in weight for a Parker 12 gauge gun. As far as the wood goes Remington era guns are known for their great wood and I don't believe a distinction was made to put better wood on a 1/2 frame gun.

[Mike Stahle]

Is this about the right weight for a 12 ga. 1 frame with 30"

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l308/mountaincreekphotos/Guns/ParkerGH15.jpg

[Dean Romig]

Generally speaking Mike, that's right in the ballpark with some a few ounces lighter and others several ounces heavier.

[Rich Anderson]

There are many variables that make up a gun weight other than frame size such as forarm style spl VS BTF, ejectors, barrel weight and length and probably the biggest is wood density.

[Forrest Smith]

I'd put a premium on a 3 frame 12, try finding one of those.

The greatest misnomer in Parker shotguns: "rare 0 frame 16 gauge". The greatest deal in Parker shotguns: the rarer, but for some reason "less desireable", 2 oz heavier 1 frame 16.

[Bill Murphy]

Pete, great job reading those markings. The only ones I can make out are the MOD and FULL. Nice gun. Anyone know the serial number for our list of half frames? At $18,995, Tony will have it for a while.

[Pete Lester]

Pete, great job reading those markings. The only ones I can make out are the MOD and FULL. Nice gun. Anyone know the serial number for our list of half frames? At $18,995, Tony will have it for a while.

Thanks Bill but my eyes are not once they once were. I can't make out what is stamped on each barrel just ahead of the flats. Look to be three characters in an oval. I wonder if it is the REP inside an oval which I have seen on 870's and 1100's. Remington proof mark? There are better pictures here:

http://www.csmcspecials.com/product_p/20583.htm

[David Hamilton]

Forrest, I've just acquired a 12 g 3 frame DH with 32" barrels. Full and full, of course. Has the weight to make me swing the thing. I'm learning how to use this heavy weight to shoot clays! wish me luck. David

[Forrest Smith]

David,

I'd like to find one to deer hunt with, one's for sale on one of the online sites, but its at an appropriate premium. Someday I might pick up a pinned stock 2 frame for cheap for the use, lots of those out there. First though to run down a 20 bore field grade, lots of the same ones from the same dealers at the same prices. Maybe I'll insult them with another offer soon.

[Pete Lester]

I have a DelGrego restored 3 frame 12ga VH with 32" bbls that weighs 9 pounds. Although not as heavy as most 10 bores it is not a gun I would want to be walking around the woods with looking for deer or anything else unless I was looking to stretch out one arm longer than the other :rotf:

For me 8 pounds and up makes a for a gun to lay across one's lap waiting for the game to come to you.