who got it

[scott kittredge]

Ok, Who bought the CHE 2 barrel set 20 ga. Str. grip, 26 and 30 in. barrels,with 2 forends All for 5500.00:corn:

[Bill Murphy]

Where did this take place?

[edgarspencer]

Tony. Interesting piece; no dolls head rib extensions on either barrels. Worst Case hardening colors I've ever seen. I think there was a lot more to the "story" than what the listing said. Something like " If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is".
I'd sure like to know what it originally was, as it was pretty interesting engraving.

[Larry Frey]

Should make for an interesting PGCA letter.:whistle:

[edgarspencer]

I think the letter will be quite different from the gun. There are only two 20ga Grade 4 guns, neither of which had straight stocks, in the entire 91,000 range.
I was actually going to run over there to have a look, but his new hours are only Thursdays and Fridays.
I think the neatest part of the whole gun was the lack of dolls heads. I blew up the pictures and am able to see the fill in slot in the receiver, pre engraving. The breech end termination of the rib looks correct, so I'm also thinking monoblocked.

[Dean Romig]

It is a unique gun and I certainly had my eye on it too. In fact, I was just about to go on that link and make my move but then a guy I used to call a friend told me not to bother......
It has been restocked and probably a new forend too... case colors are... (ahem)... not what we would call "factory correct" so, like my (former) friend told me, "it will certainly be a 'project' gun."




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[Craig Budgeon]

Since the gun appears to be sold now, I am curious to know if the purchaser took advantage of the 3 day inspection period or if it was even offered.

[John Dallas]

Where was it offered?

[edgarspencer]

Should make for an interesting PGCA letter.:whistle:

I wonder if the buyer will share the letter, when he gets it.:whistle:

[Craig Budgeon]

Gun was posted on gunsinternational late last week thru yesterday. Deans post refers to the gun as a project gun but I find it misleading to call it a project gun. To the members who missed it, you wouldn't be disappointed had you had the chance to view it.

[edgarspencer]

Gun was posted on gunsinternational late last week thru yesterday. Deans post refers to the gun as a project gun but I find it misleading to call it a project gun. To the members who missed it, you wouldn't be disappointed had you had the chance to view it.

Dean's terminology was absolutely on the mark. Those who know Tony, know he does not "publish " the faults and leaves it to the seasoned collector with the knowledge and wherewithal to take this from a 'sow's ear' to a silk purse. There are a few qualified smiths who know what the gun should end up looking like, and for sure, the last one missed the mark. The Brady case was a teaser.

[Craig Budgeon]

With a chance of annoying Edgar again, I referred to the quote Dean made of his (friend) in his post of the gun being a project gun. To me that gun would be considered a shooter at best if safe and a parts gun if not. I am not sure anyone can RESTORE that gun and recoup his investment in equal dollars. Oh by the way I have known Tony Galazan for over 40 years and have done business with him since 1986 on a regular basis.

[Dean Romig]

Everyone has his own opinion and is entitled to it. In my opinion it has distinct possibilities.





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[edgarspencer]

No worries Craig, You didn't annoy me. I simply felt Deans description that the gun was a project was correct. As it is, it may be a shooter. I wouldn't say from the pictures that could be determined. In my view, it is not only a project, it's a very worthy project, because the receiver is so interesting. Guns with absent dolls heads, are rare and were usually ordered by professional shooters, so Larry's comment about the letter is equally pertinent.

Knowing Tony as you do, I'm surprised we haven't met, as Tony and I hung out together regularly at Safari, usually in the basement, from the mid 70s.

[Kirk Pfeffer]

Would it be possible to see some pictures or the listing number?
Thanks
Kirk

[Dean Romig]

At the time of the sale the entire ad was pulled from the Gunsinternational web page.





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[Larry Frey]

I wonder if the buyer will share the letter, when he gets it.:whistle:

Some times you take a chance and things work out and some times they don't. Chuck did a great job digging up info that helped answer many of the questions regarding this gun. It seems the fellow that ordered this gun had a similar gun about 1500 numbers earlier as he ordered a second set of barrels for both guns with some pretty specific details that are probably related to the aftermarket ejector system on both barrel sets. I believe the first set was cut to 26" and the 30"s are the second set as the chokes match the letter. The lack of a dolls head and the special scroll engraving are also noted in the letter. The gun was originally a PG but was requested to be cut to SG although I can't be sure the gun wears it's original stock regardless of the fact that it's stamped correctly. Below is what I received today and shows why we are so lucky the PGCA has this information and guy's like Mark Conrad earlier and Chuck Bishop today that are willing to work for the organization to make these letters available to us.

Parker shotgun, serial number 91964, was ordered by N.T. DePauw at Camp DePauw, Crooked Lake, IN on April 27, 1899 and shipped on September 8, 1899. According to Parker Bros. Order Book No. 47, it was a CH hammerless, 20-gauge. It featured Titanic steel barrels with a length of 30 inches. Special requests were: RH almost cylinder, LH close, No extended rib, No shield, 2 9/16 chamber, Trigger pull 3 ½ pounds, Scroll engraving, Silver sight, Stock 1 ½” thick at butt, For-end narrow, Trigger guard extra light small bow. The order was placed by du Bray.

The price was $150.00.

According to Parker Bros. Stock Book No. 33, the stock configuration was a pistol grip and its specifications were: Lengths of Pull: 14 3/32”, 14 6/16”, 14 13/16”, Drop at Heel: 2 13/16”, Drop at Comb: 1 ¾”, Weight: 5 pounds and 13 ounces.

According to Parker Bros. Stock Book No. 56, the gun was returned by N.T. DePauw of Woodruff, WI on March 17, 1902. The request was to fit 30”, 20ga. barrels to both guns. RH 7/8 choke, LH full. For S/N 90585 the request was to fit split extractors if stem size is same as old ones, if not, bore for regular extractors and send borings for split extractors. The price was $50.00. For S/N 91694, the request was to cut P.G. off and make it straight. “Wants extractor holes exact same size as on old barrels, if can do so.” The price was $50.00.

[Dean Romig]

Great provenance and history. Thanks Larry and thank you too chuck!






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[edgarspencer]

That is a fantastic letter and eliminates a lot of doubts. Now to just get it stock long enough so Deb doesn't claim it.

[Dean Romig]

Deb already has a CHE to shoot... but you can never have too many Parkers, and as I recall, she also has an AH two-barrel set... :corn:






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[Larry Frey]

That is a fantastic letter and eliminates a lot of doubts. Now to just get it stock long enough so Deb doesn't claim it.

Too late, I have already been informed she will be shooting it on the small bore course at Haussmann's.:rolleyes:

[Mills Morrison]

Good job Larry! Sounds like you got a good gun

[John Truitt]

That was way too cool of a gun to not get her. Well done Mr Frey/ Mrs Frey :)

Lots of potential in that gun. If she had been 34" you boys would not have stood a chance at her :)

Have lots of fun at HHSC.

All my best,

John

[Dean Romig]

Have lots of fun at HHSC.

John

John, that leaves us with the impression that you won't be at Hausmann's?

One of these years you really have to make the trip - You too, would "Have lots of fun at HHSC." :smiley7:





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[edgarspencer]

Chuck did a great job digging up info that helped answer many of the questions regarding this gun.
Yes, But did he spell your name right?
According to Parker Bros. Stock Book No. 33, the stock configuration was a pistol grip and its specifications were: Lengths of Pull: 14 3/32”, 14 6/16”, 14 13/16”, Drop at Heel: 2 13/16”, Drop at Comb: 1 ¾”, Weight: 5 pounds and 13 ounces. How can a gun have three different pull lengths

That is a fantastic letter and eliminates a lot of doubts. Now to just get it stock long enough so Deb doesn't claim it.Whoops, too Late. That didn't take long. And as far as confusion, what's up with the aforementioned LsOP ?

Deb already has a CHE to shoot...
Seriously Dean? How many pairs of shoes does Kathy have? Julie won't say much when another Parker comes thru the door, because she and Amelda Marcos share the love of shoes.

[Craig Budgeon]

Edgar, my relationship with Tony doesn't begin to emulate yours. I met him in either Syracuse or Rochester over the years and in recent years all business has been conducted by phone, internet, and/or mail. I have never been to New Britain and I have learned more about Tony through his employees than I ever did from himself. However, I have found all of his checks to have been good. Larry, it seems you have many options for the CHE and I hope the one you choose exceeds your expectations

[Dave Noreen]

How can a gun have three different pull lengths

Length to the heel, length to the middle of the butt and length to the toe. I've seen quite a few guns ordered by cranks specified that way.

Sounds like a great gun Larry. Congrats!! Now find the other one!!

[edgarspencer]

Craig, I'm sure you've heard all sorts of stories about Tony, and most are true. Nonetheless, he is an engaging and friendly guy, but above all, one of the most talented individuals who understands the complicated world of concept, design, manufacturing and marketing. You can't help but like him, just keep your hand on your wallet.
If you've never been to his store, it would be worth a trip and sooner rather than later as he is contemplating getting out of sporting guns entirely. His AR line, and double pump line are running round the clock and now he's making 1911s too

[Bill Murphy]

The original owner of the CH 20 was quite a guy. Google is full of historical mentions about him. Since most of us missed the ad, maybe Larry would try some pictures.

[Craig Budgeon]

Edgar, it should be no surprise to those who know Tony well that he has an unrelenting drive and he is able to comprehend many subjects very well. Carol has shared that he requires as little as 3 hrs sleep to function normally. I know for a fact he drives long distances and looks fresh after arriving with little or no sleep. I also have been told that the gun business is not his main resource of income. There are other stories, but I will not share them here. Your mention of Tony beginning to focus on military style weapons only verifies what I have heard from another member of this forum. Not good news!

[Dean Romig]

Your mention of Tony beginning to focus on military style weapons only verifies what I have heard from another member of this forum. Not good news!

What may be good for some may not necessarily be good for others - Good for Tony.... not so good for followers of fine sporting arms.





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[Chuck Bishop]

Yes, But did he spell your name right?
How can a gun have three different pull lengths

Whoops, too Late. That didn't take long. And as far as confusion, what's up with the aforementioned LsOP ?


Seriously Dean? How many pairs of shoes does Kathy have? Julie won't say much when another Parker comes thru the door, because she and Amelda Marcos share the love of shoes.

Eggar, that wasn't nice. I only do it to you for obvious reasons, Larry is a friend:p

[edgarspencer]

Eggar, that wasn't nice. I only do it to you for obvious reasons, Larry is a friend:p

Chuck, I know you love me. Our many conversations are just our way of bonding. I know I am the only one you torment so.

[edgarspencer]

Your mention of Tony beginning to focus on military style weapons only verifies what I have heard from another member of this forum. Not good news! I suppose it's better than him getting back into the Bar, or Limousine business. Although, he did just buy a new Rolls.

[Craig Budgeon]

Dean, Tonys earned every dime he has made I was just hopeful the good news would stay on my side of the ledger. Edgar, I suspect the new Rolls is for sundays best, a Mercedes is the daily-driver, and a slightly used Mercedes serves as the winter salt-shaker.

[Dean Romig]

Dean, Tonys earned every dime he has made.


No argument from me on that point Craig. For a man who started working on guns and trading them from his Dad's garage, I'd say he's done pretty darn well.
My point was that his changing his production and business model over from classic sporting arms to modern high-capacity and high fire rate arms will prove good for Tony and his employees.... but not so good for those of us who have come to search out his wares on the Internet as well as major SXS venues.





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[Buddy Harrison]

From the descriptions of Tony provided by those of you who know him best, sounds like he and Ansley Fox would have gotten along famously.

[Craig Budgeon]

I don't agree Buddy. Every venture I have seen Tony take has turned to gold on the other hand Ansleys had to be liquidated to the best of my knowledge. Just a thought- great entrepreneurs have the ability to recognize market change and/or a consumer need long before there competitors.

[Larry Frey]

I think the letter will be quite different from the gun. There are only two 20ga Grade 4 guns, neither of which had straight stocks, in the entire 91,000 range.


Edgar,
In looking at TPS last night I only see one set of grade 4 20 gage Titanic 30" barrels listed so I assume the other set you referenced is of another type of steel or composite. Interestingly there is also only one set of 29" Titanic barrels listed and they were on Mr. DePauw's earlier CH 20 90585. That gun was also ordered without a dolls head and with straight grip. With the requested changes to 91964 and new matching 30" barrels for both guns this fellow had a pretty nice matched pair of long barreled small bore Parkers.

[edgarspencer]

Edgar,
In looking at TPS last night I only see one set of grade 4 20 gage Titanic 30" barrels listed so I assume the other set you referenced is of another type of steel or composite. Interestingly there is also only one set of 29" Titanic barrels listed and they were on Mr. DePauw's earlier CH 20 90585. That gun was also ordered without a dolls head and with straight grip. With the requested changes to 91964 and new matching 30" barrels for both guns this fellow had a pretty nice matched pair of long barreled small bore Parkers.

I'm not sure how I worded my comment, but what I meant was that there were only two Grade 4 20gauge guns in the 91000-91999 range. We now know where 91964 is, but the other was 91584, and according to the SN&ID book, it was 28". Interestingly, the next gun, 91585, was a 27" CH, 16gauge; very likely also bought by Mr. DePauw. Clearly, the man knew exactly what he wanted, and nothing else would suffice. Where did you find the information indicating 91584 was 29", and not 28"?
I also wonder if 91584 (and maybe 91585) were similarly engraved?
I have to say, irrespective of your gun's present condition, it may be the most unusual and exciting Parker I have seen in quite some time. I'm just hoping Deb will show it to us next week.
I think it's ironic that with a 13 5/8" LOP, you may never get it away from her, because you won't be able to shoot it anyway.

[Larry Frey]

I'm not sure how I worded my comment, but what I meant was that there were only two Grade 4 20gauge guns in the 91000-91999 range. We now know where 91964 is, but the other was 91584, and according to the SN&ID book, it was 28". Interestingly, the next gun, 91585, was a 27" CH, 16gauge; very likely also bought by Mr. DePauw. Clearly, the man knew exactly what he wanted, and nothing else would suffice. Where did you find the information indicating 91584 was 29", and not 28"?
I also wonder if 91584 (and maybe 91585) were similarly engraved?
I have to say, irrespective of your gun's present condition, it may be the most unusual and exciting Parker I have seen in quite some time. I'm just hoping Deb will show it to us next week.
I think it's ironic that with a 13 5/8" LOP, you may never get it away from her, because you won't be able to shoot it anyway.

Edgar,
The 29" gun I referenced was 90585 not 91584 and the info was in TPS.

[Mills Morrison]

Nice gun either way. It just goes to show that if it looks too good to be true, sometimes it is actually true