Fox guns.

[david ross]

Hi Guys.:)
I think Parker guns are better than Fox guns is that true. I have only seen them
in books but to me a Parker has the edge.
All the best Dave:bigbye:

[Rick Losey]

David

you ask the on the PARKER board? :shock:

reverse the question and ask on the Fox board :rotf:


they are different - i have and enjoy shooting both

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Well, that opens a can of worms, but I own both and shoot both. A good friend of mine who is a Fox guy says that it is hard to find a gunsmith who knows how to fix Foxes--
because they never break down.
That said, I am more of a "parker guy" than "Fox guy"

[Steve Cambria]

Hi Guys.:)
I think Parker guns are better than Fox guns is that true. I have only seen them
in books but to me a Parker has the edge.
All the best Dave:bigbye:

Dave,

I couldn't help but notice the long range forecast for "down-under."

54466

Regards,

Ansley H.

[Daniel G Rainey]

Have owned only one fox. I much prefer Parkers. One of the best things Parker did was matching frame size of the gun to gauge.

[Rick Losey]

Dave,

I couldn't help but notice the long range forecast for "down-under."

Regards,

Ansley H.

David is in England I believe


it is hard to find a gunsmith who knows how to fix Foxes--
because they never break down.



:rotf::rotf::rotf:

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Fox also scaled frame size to the gauge. Lefever also put the 16 and 20 on the 20 ga or "XX" frame

[George Lander]

But Teddy chose the Fox to go with him to Africa ???

[John Davis]

As my dad use to say: that's why they make chocolate and vanilla.

[George M. Purtill]

As my dad use to say: that's why they make chocolate and vanilla.

That's true JD. They made chocolate so I could have more vanilla.

[MARK KIRCHER]

I shoot my fox once a year just to remind me why I shoot my Parkers every other time....:rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf:

[Pete Lester]

I think the composite barrel A.H. Fox guns were cheaply finished, they look as plain as fluid steel and their 10 bores are plagued with extremely tight chambers forcing me to use 12 ga shells in them. :)

[Gary Laudermilch]

I just got rid of a Fox Sterly 20. It was a miserable cuss to shoot. Oh, it hit what I pointed it at but kicked the living crap out of me. Half way through a round of 5-stand and I was ready to quit. On top of that the chambers were so tight that once loaded it was a bugger to get unloaded. I am delighted it is gone.

[tom tutwiler]

I've had a bunch of both. I mostly have Foxes for the most part now. I think Parkers are generally heavier for respective gauges. I think for Grouse hunting and climbing the mountains of Va/WV and Pa weight matters. I've had two different Foxes in 16 gauge that came in under 6 lbs. One was 5 lbs 10 ounces. I think Parker barrels were struck better.

[Dean Romig]

:cool:I've had a bunch of both. I mostly have Foxes for the most part now. I think Parkers are generally heavier for respective gauges. I think for Grouse hunting and climbing the mountains of Va/WV and Pa weight matters. I've had two different Foxes in 16 gauge that came in under 6 lbs. One was 5 lbs 10 ounces. I think Parker barrels were struck better.



Ha! You should try negotiating the Vermont terrain where I hunt Tom. I carry and shoot a (several) Parker(s) but use a Fox twenty-gauge Sterly as a climbing staff - I've worn almost two inches off the end of those "Chromox" barrels over the years....:cool:






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[Phil Yearout]

There was a fella I used to spar with (good naturedly) on the 16ga forum, who used to refer to my Foxes as tomato stakes - he was into some weird kinda gun with the barrels turned the wrong way :eek:. The last time I heard from him he had two or three Foxes and had another on the way. So don't worry guys; there's hope for some of you yet :rotf:!

[todd allen]

I don't currently own a Fox, but I will say they have a very simple, straight- forward design.

[Scott Janowski]

I do not believe the Fox Parker Challange was ever won by Parker.........draw your own conclusion.

[todd allen]

I do not believe the Fox Parker Challange was ever won by Parker.........draw your own conclusion.

They have better shooters?

[Scott Janowski]

Would not better shooters choose the best gun?

[Daryl Corona]

I'll start out by saying that I have been a Parker 20 ga. guy for 40+ years and love them dearly. That was until I bought my first Fox 20 ga., a Sterlingworth with 30" tubes. It ain't fancy but I shoot it as well if not better than any Parker 20 ga. I own and I have them from 26"-32", damascus and fluid steel.

So, this got me to thinking after shooting smallbore stuff almost exclusively at the Southern this year and this past weekend.

Fox 20 ga. guns are truly built on a scaled down frame. I compared the Fox 20/30" with a Parker VHE 28/30", OO frame. Both with pistol grips, splinter forends the only difference being ejectors on the Parker.

Here are the stats:

Parker
6.25 lb.
width of frame at standing breech 1.60"
length of frame 3.0"
weight of barrels/forend 3.25 lb., stock/receiver 3 lb.

Fox
6.0 lb.
width of frame at standing breech 1.60"
length of frame 2.27"
weight of barrels/forend 3.25 lb, stock/receiver 2.75 lb.

This just goes to show how well designed the Fox smallbore frames are to achieve their wonderful handling and balance. Anyone coming to Hausmann's is welcome to shoot the Fox at the Bo Whoop to see for yourself. Get rid of my Parkers, not quite yet. But certainly on the hunt for more Fox 20's.
The bottom line is the Fox, IMHO and that of a renowned gunsmith, is a better designed gun but the Parker is still dear to my heart.

[todd allen]

Would not better shooters choose the best gun?

Not necessarily. I kept my Parkers. ; )

[Daryl Corona]

I do not believe the Fox Parker Challange was ever won by Parker.........draw your own conclusion.

In this case it is definitely the Indian not the arrow. Fox has some very accomplished (as in Master class) shooters.

[Dave Noreen]

At the time the Ansley H. Fox Gun came on the market in 1905, Parker Bros. advertising was stating "135000 in sportsmen's hands." So, from then to the end during WW-II, Parker Bros./Remington produced about 107000 guns and A.H. Fox Gun Co./Savage produced about 190000. Looking at the numbers, the Fox edge was all in the entry-level guns. In 1910 the Sterlingworth was introduced at $25.00. A couple of years late Parker Bros. introduced the Trojan Grade at $25.50 but almost immediately upped the price to $27.50. Inflation associated with The Great War began raising prices and in 1916 the Sterlingworth went up to $30.00 and both guns were up to $55 after the war. Parker kept the quality and price high, eventually selling some 33,000 Trojans. A.H. Fox Gun Co. cut the price to $48.00 in 1922 and to $36.50 in 1926, a dollar less then Ithaca Gun Co.'s new Field Grade NID introduced that year. Fit and finish suffered but apparently the market favored the lower prices and about 141000 Sterlingworths were sold. While the Trojan was only offered in limited barrel lengths and never ejectors, the Sterlingworth was offered with all four barrel lengths in all three gauges and offered with ejectors and single selective triggers.

[Dean Romig]

I do not believe the Fox Parker Challange was ever won by Parker.........draw your own conclusion.


I have pictorial evidence that Parker won it at Addieville some years ago.

Does anyone else remember Toolman on bended knee presenting Larry Frey with a crisp $twenty?

I sure do.....






.

[Bill Jolliff]

Isn't it a little like sex?

Never had a bad one!

[Dave Moore]

All you have to do is open and close the gun to see which is the better gun.
I have both in several grades and the Parker guns all work smoother and crisper.

[Mills Morrison]

Foxes and Parkers are my favorites, although I own a lot more Parkers. It is really a matter of personal preference.

[Dean Romig]

In response to Daves accounting of both the Sterlingworth and the Trojan, it is well known that the Trojan, for Parker Bros. was a "break even" proposition at best. Parker designed and manufactured the Trojan simply to 'stay on the map' while other gun makers were stealing their lunch with the cheap guns they were flooding the market with. It was sink or swim.
The VH was Parker's low end introductory gun until the Sterly came along.
Of course Fox could produce their gun cheaper - it had way fewer parts but that fact doesn't make it a more well made gun... just a better design is all. Yes, fewer parts equate to fewer things to break or malfunction.
IMO a small bore Parker is a far nicer gun to look at, even the Trojan, but a lot can be said for the embellishments of a graded Fox, but I'll take the Parker any day.

Daryl - Did you have to look very long to find such a heavy 00-frame 28 gauge Parker? 7 1/4 lbs seems on the heavy side for such a Parker. My 28 ga. 00-frame VHE with 26" tubes is 6 1/4 lbs and I can't understand how 4 more inches of barrel accounts for 1 lb.?





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[Daryl Corona]

Not really Dean, I posted 4lb for the PB receiver in error and it's 3lb. It's 6.25lb total I scarfed the first 30" 28 I came across. It's really a well balanced gun and I agree that Parker has the edge on aesthetics as far as the Sterly's are concerned but if you had seen and handled that 32" CE Fox 20 that was at the Southern you would have to rethink that. I'd put it up against any high grade Parker.

The word to describe the smallbore Fox is lithe. So is the 30" Parker 28. My comparison in my previous post of the two guns was to show, in my opinion, that you have to go down to a OO frame PB gun to get the feeling of the Fox smallbore. Obviously your mileage may vary but it sure works for me.

[Dean Romig]

My mistake Daryl - I thought I had read that the back half of your Parker was 4 lbs.
My math is very good but I guess my eyesight is lacking?

I wish I had been at the Southern and had seen that CE.





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[Daryl Corona]

I hope you and your bride are coming to Ernie's as it just might be there. The owner is not quite sure if he can make it, but either way it would be good to see you both. Plus, we can can have our own FPC with a hands on comparison of the two guns and then you'll understand.:corn:

[Dean Romig]

We'll be there Daryl - looking forward to it. Well get there just before noon on Friday, I hope.






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[Dave Noreen]

Chas. Askins wrote that his Parker Bros. 28-gauge with 30-inch barrels weighed 6 3/4 pounds. It was probably one of the early 0-frame guns. Good thing it was that heavy as he writes of loading 2 1/8 drams of bulk smokeless powder and 3/4 ounce of shot in the 2 7/8 inch 28-gauge case for it in those pre WW-I days. The heaviest 28-gauge loads our ammo factories offered then were 2 drams of bulk smokeless powder pushing 5/8 ounce of shot out of the 2 7/8 inch case.

Back in the day, $25 was the price point to shoot for. Remington Arms Co.'s K-Grade, Hunter Arms Co.'s 00-grade L.C. Smith and Lefever Arms Co.'s DS-Grade all had a $25 net selling price.