2018 Parker vs LC Smith 16 ga and 20 ga Challenge Events

[John Truitt]

For 2018 we are going to add a 20 gauge event on Thursday at the Spring Southern.

This will be in addition to the 16 ga event but will be its own separate event on its own five stand. Same format as the 16 ga event. Same rules, etc just this one is for 20 ga guns.

More info to follow in the future months.

[Mike Koneski]

No need to head to Drake and shoot a round in the AM. We'll be there bright and squirrelly!! Now I just need 2 more guns!!?? Hmmmm, where to find some??

[Rich Anderson]

I have lots of 20's and 16's but as I'll be at Drakes and you won't then you'll have to search elsewhere for one.:whistle:

[Eric Eis]

No need to head to Drake and shoot a round in the AM. We'll be there bright and squirrelly!! Now I just need 2 more guns!!?? Hmmmm, where to find some??

I am sorry but I don't know why some people in the PGCA have it in for Drakes! The courses are fantastic (much better then "others") and the prices are very fair, And all of the people there go out of their way to be helpful and nice and make sure you have a nice shooting experience. So why are we doing this competition, Thursday used to be a nice free day from the Southern and some of us organized a shoot at Drakes Landing.The shoot started on Thursday for anyone who got to the Southern early and wanted to shoot a great course at fair prices . I support the PGCA and have always come to the Southern for the shoot, but I know I can't qualify so what's so wrong with me and others shooting at Drake's Thursday (when no events had been scheduled until last year) and Friday morning! Is this a way to try and shame members to only shoot a one place.......... Sorry I don't get it. Eric

[John Truitt]

I am sorry but I don't know why some people in the PGCA have it in for Drakes! The courses are fantastic (much better then "others") and the prices are very fair, And all of the people there go out of their way to be helpful and nice and make sure you have a nice shooting experience. So why are we doing this competition, Thursday used to be a nice free day from the Southern and some of us organized a shoot at Drakes Landing.The shoot started on Thursday for anyone who got to the Southern early and wanted to shoot a great course at fair prices . I support the PGCA and have always come to the Southern for the shoot, but I know I can't qualify so what's so wrong with me and others shooting at Drake's Thursday (when no events had been scheduled until last year) and Friday morning! Is this a way to try and shame members to only shoot a one place.......... Sorry I don't get it. Eric

Eric,

As I am the person who came up with the idea for the 16 ga and now 20 ga Parker/ Smith Challenge Events on Thursday, fund it out of my own pocket, and have never once asked the PGCA or LCSCA for anything related to this event, I can speak and answer your question with truth and first hand knowledge:

THAT IN NO WAY WAS THIS EVENT THOUGHT OF OR STARTED OR OTHER TO DO AS YOU ARE QUESTIONING OR IMPLYING IN YOUR OWN WORDS ABOVE.

No one is instructing or telling or influencing shooters where or where not to go. This has been made clear in all of my other posts and you and everyone else can search those on this forum and see for your selves.

No one is trying to undermine anyone exercising their individuals rights and freedoms to do as they wish and please. I hope everyone willing to shoot can do so and come to the Southern and shoot both places and all venues and events if they so desire.

You are welcome to call me anytime if you need any more clarification or if I have not made myself clear enough. I will PM you my phone number.

[George M. Purtill]

I shoot at both venues.
Eric-Last year I shot Thursday with you and Daryl at The Drake and had a blast. This year I had to come early to work on the Hall of Fame dinner so I Shot at the Drake on Wednesday and only Buddy Marson was there.
Frankly Dr. Truitt's additional events made the Southern much more interesting.
I too will never make the team and that's good for our team!! But I shoot and support our teammates. The PGCA has a big presence at the Southern and it's important to the PGCA. We have a lot of hardworking members there: Mills, Tom Wooden, Ed Morgan and lots more.
Nobody wants to discourage anyone from shooting the Drake. I love both places for different reasons. But I think every able bodied Parker shooter should be at the Southern. We are outnumbered 3-1 by lcsmith.
I'll shoot with you on Wednesday every year but by Thursday I will be waving the PGCA flag at the Southern.

[Buddy Marson]

George, let's not forget we also shot with Tom Pellegrini. A Parker club member and one fine shot! I had a great time at Drake's and look forward to shooting with you guys and anyone else that wants to join in on the fun next year! We don't keep score sheets and everyone shoots outstanding rounds!

[John Truitt]

From day one, the start of the 16 ga shoot, I have been open and clear and honest that in no way is this a sanctioned event by either the PGCA or LCSCA. That fact is still in effect to this day and will carry over to next years events.

Guys we are fortunate to live in a country that allows us/affords us the luxury of being so passionate about things that are not life and death. Shooting/ collecting/ etc is meant to be fun/ etc.

I will state again what I have said many many times. I hope that everyone who wishes to can shoot at the Southern (at Deep River), or at Drakes, or everywhere in between and both venues/ etc.
Burn lots of powder and have fun!!!!
There is an open invitation to all to come and shoot with us on Thursday for the 16 ga, 20 ga, one or the other or both events. Like I have said before we keep qualifying open until around 4pm, hoping this allows time to shoot Drakes in the am or early afternoon and then time to come over and shoot at the dove field with us.

No offense is taken from any of this discussion and please understand that no offense is given either.

Have fun, burn lots of powder and please do support the PGCA and team Parker in what ever way each of us can. Mr Purtill is right (well spoken. you hit the nail on the head). We are being out numbered. We are putting up a hell of a fight, but we need member support by members coming out and shooting. TEAM PARKER NEEDS YOUR HELP!!!!! On any given day any one of us could make the difference. Take that chance and try. If you don't you will never know what could have happened. Pull the trigger so to speak.
In the end we are all on the same team.

Again no offense meant to anyone. If anyone needs to talk to me please PM me your contact info. I am willing to talk anytime.

All my best,

John

[George M. Purtill]

George, let's not forget we also shot with Tom Pellegrini. A Parker club member and one fine shot!

Yes I forgot his damn fine shooting. He was kicking our butts on the new course.

[Mike Koneski]

I shoot at both venues.
Eric-Last year I shot Thursday with you and Daryl at The Drake and had a blast. This year I had to come early to work on the Hall of Fame dinner so I Shot at the Drake on Wednesday and only Buddy Marson was there.
Frankly Dr. Truitt's additional events made the Southern much more interesting.
I too will never make the team and that's good for our team!! But I shoot and support our teammates. The PGCA has a big presence at the Southern and it's important to the PGCA. We have a lot of hardworking members there: Mills, Tom Wooden, Ed Morgan and lots more.
Nobody wants to discourage anyone from shooting the Drake. I love both places for different reasons. But I think every able bodied Parker shooter should be at the Southern. We are outnumbered 3-1 by lcsmith.
I'll shoot with you on Wednesday every year but by Thursday I will be waving the PGCA flag at the Southern.

I agree with George. We need to be changing that 3-1 ratio of LCS-Parker. Guys like Tom P and Daryl C (among others) would be very useful in swinging that ratio to our favor and adding some good numbers to the qualifier boards.

[Rich Anderson]

Here's my take on the challenge and there are others who agree. I said this to Mark Conrad 15 years ago so if you want more shooters you might want to consider adopting a Lewis class system. Lets say you want a squad of 10 shooters then make it two or three of the caliber of say John Truit, then a couple more that aren't A or AA class shooters then the final third your class C or D shooters. This would give more people a chance to make "The team" therefore increasing the number of participants. It should also be limited to original guns, no choke tubes non original barrels etc.

IMHO (and I have NO stake in this it's just an observation) that this has become more about winning and less about the guns and the organizations behind them. I looked at team Parker's winning squad and didn't recognize half of the names. The web site listed them as Forum Members so how fortunate that they signed up as members at Deep River for Parker. A team shooter should have to have been a member of their respective organization for at least 6 months prior to the shoot. You want more shooters what will it hurt to give it a try?

[George M. Purtill]

Very good points Rich
Mills is in charge of the rules on our side.
I think its all about winning and has been for years.
Question:
What the hell is an original Parker? I'm not sure I own one.

[Dean Romig]

For the purposes of this thread, I think it can be defined as 'a Parker shotgun originally manufactured in Meriden or in Illion though may not be in its original finish or configuration.'





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[John Truitt]

There are bigger issues at hand than the definition of an original gun.

First: It is about winning!!!! Don't be fooled, Team LC goes out there every year to clean our clock. They want to win. There is nothing wrong with winning. In fact it should be our goal as well. NO one is saying it cannot and is not done in a gentlemanly fashion. No one is saying it should be done at the expense of the organization/ etc. I know my words are not going to do my thoughts justice but it is not wrong to want to or to attempt to win and have our team be successful.
Please remember Parker and Smith have been rivals for a long time. And I am not talking about the organizations. The companies were business rivals back in the day. They sponsored shooters. Do you think they did not want their shooter to win?

Second: we are all forgetting that in the end the entry fees go to charity. So why should we limit those wanting to sign up. The more sign up and participate the more money that goes to charity.
Those refusing to participate, well not helping anyone for charity.

Third: Who cares when someone signs up or renews their membership? We want the organization to grow. Why be elitist and decline those willing to participate? "you have not been a member long enough. Your gun is not original enough." May be they just bought their first parker at the southern and now can participate. Maybe this was their first opportunity to join or participate or purchase a Parker. Maybe watching our shooters and talking to our members got them interested. We should not be turning them or anyone away.

The organizations and the rules are not perfect. But nothing will be. We will not be able to please everyone. So far I would say the Challenge is a temendous success. I hope that it continues to be so for many many years to come. I hope I can continue to be a part of it and will do what ever I can to help it continue to be successful and help the PGCA and Team Parker.

I am all for open and honest debate and discussion. And no one should be refused or stopped from the ability to express their thoughts/ views etc. Even though I disagree with a lot being expressed in this thread, I am glad we can discuss it and debate it. I may disagree with you but I will respect your right to your opinion and to voice your opinion. But what is wrong is to start rumors and spread mis information. If no one points this out and gives facts the false information will become reality.
When I get home I will post info about the shooters on Team Parker this past year. Just because one person does not recognize their names/ faces does not have any bearing on their membership and commitment to the organization. We were blessed with a tremendous team this past Southern. I think it is wrong to despairingly talk about them and make insinuating comments that are just not accurate.

[John Truitt]

Team Parker 2017: (in order seen in team picture):
1. Brian Bradey: (from MD, has been on the team several years in a row now. Won HOA in the hammer challenge last year. shoots his grandfathers original 410 at the 410 events, owns his own business. Youngest member on the team this year. His dad by the way shoots for Team LC Smith. so Brian is always under attack but always sticks with a Parker)
2. Mike Koneski: (from PA, been on the team several times, fantastic shot. Runs a sporting clays course in PA, needs no introduction, we are lucky to have Mike fighting on our side).
3. Don Shumaker: (from Mississippi, retired college professor and now in the dairy business. Don is a duel member of PGCA and LCSCA. Don has been shooting this event since its beginning and winning high gun many many times. You can check your past Parker Pages on this. We are fortunate that he has chosen to shoot for us for the past few years. Don is a true southern gentleman.)
4. Dr Richard Lehew: (from VA, a retired orthodontist. Doc has been on the team several times over the past few years. He has fought hard thru all kinds of health issues. He is now 80 years old (turned 80 two weeks after the southern) and shooting strong. If we all could only be so fortunate)
5. Dr Chuck Devinne: (from NH, a practicing vet. Chuck is well known in the shooting community and esp side by side community. He told me at the 2016 Vintage Gunners Cup that he finally bought a Parker and would be trying out come this spring as it looked like everyone was having so much fun. Again we are very very fortunate Chuck is shooting a Parker)
6. Malcom MacGregor: (from some where up North. I don't know where I forgot. Mal is a phenomenal shooter. both rifles and shotguns/ drillings/ etc. He has won the Oscar Gady award several times with his trusty hammergun)
7.
8. Danny Patton: (from Va, a retired forester, a retired stock maker and wood man. Fantastic shot. Also been on the team previously. Danny is a Parker man)
9. Dave Fjelline: (from California, a retired professional hunter. Everyone knows Dave aka Champ. No has only one good eye, that is the reason for the sights on his barrels. He over came this handicap to continue shooting and kicking butt)
10. Brian Hornacek: (all the way from Candada!!!!!!!!, well known on this forum. Needs no introduction)

I am pretty certain all are active members and have been so for quite a while. Some might have renewed membership at the Southern. I can only think of one that might have needed to sign up as a new member. But again I don't see why that is an issue or maters.

[George M. Purtill]

Hornacek??
Forget about being a PGCA member. I'm not sure if he's a US citizen. In fact I think he is from Canada.

[Brian Hornacek]

Hornacek??
Forget about being a PGCA member. I'm not sure if he's a US citizen. In fact I think he is from Canada.

Hey George I have been told I am loosing the Ohio accent and picking up a few "eh's" and "you betcha's. 8 1/2 months or less and I will be back in Findlay Ohio traveling to more shoots! Looking forward building more friendships and shooting "better" in the future for team Parker!!

[chris dawe]

Hornacek ain't no Canuck ...hes a Newfoundlander!!! I seen him here walking/falling on the barrens ,falling in the woods and missing grouse ...drinking whisky & lighting bonfires on Guy Fawkes night ,eating fish and chips ...he even drank a Jockey Club and an India !!!.
Last I seen him getting on a plane with a seal pelt strung over his shoulder !

I don't know why you would even entertain letting him across the border let alone shoot for team Parker ...I mean, fer #$%^ sakes !!!!

[Dean Romig]

:biglaugh: Chris, you're killin me :rotf:

Did he club his own seal or did he buy that pelt at a Seal Cove souvenir shop? :corn:




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[chris dawe]

He bought it actually ....but we looked real,real hard for the right one,he even postponed his flight ...just ask him ;)

[Craig Larter]

I shot with Brian at Drakes and full disclosure I offered to give him a Fox if he agreed to shoot for Team Fox, he is a fantastic shot! Unfortunately for team Fox he didn't take the bait. :banghead:

[David Dwyer]

Our iconic PGCA member, friend and gunsmith Dave Fjelline currently has 8 Parkers for sale. The important feature is none of these Parkers were viable before Dave went to work on them. Two were just empty receivers, most were sans barrels and all were missing many parts. He was able to bring these Parkers back to life and the highest price one is $1,800. The point of this story is that the majority of the guns John Truit shoots were unshootable before John resurrected them. I have seen John, with Fjelline's help, take many pieces of Parker junk and after much time and $$ create a good shooting Parker.
Are they "original" Parkers? Who cares. JMHO David

[George M. Purtill]

Very true David and as I said above I don't think I own an original Parker.
If we imposed "originality" on LC Smith, I think none of their shooters could shoot.
I don't see why we can't allow Repros. They are Remington Parkers with different badging. We allow CSMC Foxes.

[Dean Romig]

I think that if a gun started life as a Meriden or Illion Parker, or a medley of such guns, it is an original Parker.





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[Mike Koneski]

I'm looking for shooters, not collector pieces. I use my guns and don't need a closet queen.

[Rich Anderson]

I use mine as well. One of my favorites is a DHE 20 with all the options. I bought the gun 15+ years ago with 90% case color, it now has probably 80% maybe slightly less, I really don't care as I'll never sell it so I'll enjoy it.

[David Dwyer]

Rich
I know . I tried to buy it from you! :bigbye:
David

[John Truitt]

Thanks for the compliments Mr Dwyer

My guns are always available for anyone to look at, discuss, etc.

I have a lot of original guns. My thing in the past was D grade straight grip no safety guns. I have a few of those still around. But over many years I have enjoyed taking an otherwise unusable/ unsafe Parker and turning her into what I want/ or would order from Parker today if they were still in business.
I have been fortunate to know Dave Fjelline and be able to have him work on my guns as well as other notable gunsmiths/ artians.

I believe form follows function. I have specific things I like in my guns to help me shoot my best. I have tried to resurrect these guns into what I want/ my formula. If I were to wait around for an all original unmolested Parker in the configuration I like, I would never find what I am looking for or would never ever be able to afford.

It has been a very fun and educational approach. I know it offends several people and is not for them but I am not trying to please anyone other than myself. I do ask those to remember that I am not and have not ever taken a safe or usuable Parker and molested it. As Mr Dwyer so plainly put, these were otherwise unusable pieces of "junk" (in some peoples opinion. You see junk I see potential) and resurrected them back to something usable and put them back in the field.

[FRANK HALSEY]

John. I would like to thank you for all you do for the PGCA and for shooters too. I would love to come to the spring or the fall s x s if my health would let me. Many people don't know how lucky they are to have a supporter like you and having the good health to do all this. Count your blessing for John and enjoy as long as you can. It can end very quick.

[Mike Koneski]

BTW, if anyone out there doesn't think the "Challenge" events are not all about competition AND winning, all you need to do is read the LCSCA newsletter or talk to some of their shooters. The smack has already begun. "The trophy will be returned to it's rightful place in 2018", comments on Team Parker getting lucky, etc..... :corn:

If ya don't care about winning, play soccer and get a participation prize. :bigbye: