2107 Fox vs. Parker Challenge

[George M. Purtill]

Are there details for this event yet?
Dates and times?
Hotel rooms?
Rules?

[Rick Losey]

isn;t it always held at the Northeast Side X Side Classic

http://hhhsc.net/

[George M. Purtill]

isn;t it always held at the Northeast Side X Side Classic

http://hhhsc.net/

Not in 2017

[Dean Romig]

It has apparently been moved to Maryland with the Vintagers event.

Too close to grouse season for me to attend.






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[Rick Losey]

must be all the Fox shooters are duck hunters

https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.BOxRl4t88hgsWCG6NzMYngEsDF&w=300&h=195&c=7&qlt=90&o=4&dpr=1.090909&pid=1.7

[Steve Cambria]

Are there details for this event yet?
Dates and times?
Hotel rooms?
Rules?


Answers:

1) Coming soon to a theatre near you.....

2)Qualifying Sept 22 & 23rd with Challenge Round late afternoon on the 23rd

3) As of now, best to check the Vintage Gunner's website

4) Strict, explicit and unmalleable. Perhaps even a bit draconian. Enough said.

[John Truitt]

How about the format for the event?

Is it five stand or other for qualifying and the challenge/ final event?

Any info would be greatly appreciated as it can be made available.

Thank you.

[Dean Romig]

Strict, explicit and unmalleable. Perhaps even a bit draconian. Enough said.


Sounds like a fun shoot...





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[Steve Cambria]

Mr. Suponski and I will be finalizing the details with VC officials early next week but I can provide the following synopsis: The qualifier will run concurrent to the American Classic (50 target) entrée. Competitors can shoot multiple rounds if so desired. Challenge Round will be shot on a "fresh" 5-stand layout late Saturday afternoon with an ESPN/NESN press conference immediately following the trophy presentation. Trust me, FPC-VI will be EPIC!!! :bowdown::whistle::bowdown:

[Frank Srebro]

Before Messrs. Cambria and Suponski put a lot of effort into this I suggest they get a firm read from the VGC officials, on names of the larger vendors who've committed to be there. We all know that besides a good shooting venue it's a big attraction to have noted vendors. Several of them told me while at the Southern that they were undecided. Another consideration for a few of the serious Fox shooters is the behind the scenes buzz, for a while now, that some of the better southeast Parker shooters have had a litany of excuses when it came to doing past SxS shoots that included the F-P Challenge and were north of the Mason Dixon line (VC when it was at Addieville, Hidden Hollow, Rock Mountain). And on that line I've talked with several good Fox men from the northeast who told me they just might reciprocate and not drive that far south to compete. There are two other SxS shooting events in PA and NY in the weeks before. I am just relating here what I've heard, please don't kill the messenger .....

[Dean Romig]

That North/South thing is pretty disturbing! We all belong to the same fraternity, small enough as it is, why fracture it even more? Makes no sense at all.






.

[Mike.Smith]

The FPC is something I really look forward too as a part of my late summer shooting schedule. Like the rest of the Fox BOD, I'm committed to turning this into a bigger event, along the lines of the Parker/ LCS shoot at the Southern. The Southern is the Southern and seems to draw people from all parts of the country no matter how far the drive. The challenge has been to find a venue and a shoot that will have the same kind of draw as the Southern, but later in the year. I have always attended Hausmann's and Mike's shoot at Rock Mountain, which is one of my favorite places to shoot. This year, I'll add Hopkins to the list as well. I'm hoping that moving the shoot a little more south will allow some more shooters to attend. To Frank's point, I think much of the draw at the Southern is the vendors, and I hope that the VC is successful at bringing them in this year. My understanding from last year is that both shoots held on the same weekend drew pretty close to the same numbers, so hopefully we'll see attendance rise for both. That said, I live in the South and will be traveling North for all three events this year. If anyone wants to break up the drive by stopping here, or wants to ride together let me know.

Mike

[John Truitt]

Many thanks to those involved in making the Fox Parker shoot happen.
God willing those of us that wish to attend can make it this year and participate.

All my best and I look forward to seeing you all at the VGC and the FPC.

John

[George M. Purtill]

I don't think I understand Frank's post but it could be the pollen I ingested bushogging for 6 hours yesterday.
Frank- are you implying that the Parker SE shooters will NOT attend or that the Fox NE shooters will not attend because the Parker SE shooters ARE going to attend?
See- I told you I am confused.......

[Dean Romig]

I would hope it is only the greater driving distance or the fact that a certain hunting season had already begun or was close at hand, that would keep serious shooters away.





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[Frank Srebro]

Yeah George I ingested a lot of that yellow pollen as well over the past week. To rephrase what I've heard from several good Fox shooters; they've been stood up too many times at the past F-P Challenges in the northeast. And hence the feeling is, why drive south to compete in a 2017 FPC when some of the good southeast Parker shooters have had little interest in driving north for those past FPC's? One need only to look at the team rosters at the past FPC's to see who came from where. Those trying to organize the 2017 FPC should consider the a possibility that Fox may not have enough good shooters to realistically compete while at the VGC. Also let me reiterate the other concern about knowing for sure which of the larger vendors will definitely be at the VGC to help "draw" shooters whether Fox or other makers.

frank

[Steve Cambria]

Gentlemen,

Dave and I are fully aware of the futility in trying to please all of the people all of the time. Think of us as concert promoters. We select what we believe to be the most advantageous venue for both associations and "set the stage." The rest as they say, is up to YOU, the performers and audience! :bowdown:

Unequivocally, Fox and Parker were the two finest doubles America ever produced, thus the FPC will be conducted in a manner commensurate with that acclaim. We are firmly committed to growing this event into what we envisioned from the very start: The premiere double gun competition in the country. Period.

Despite the pre-game buzz/boycott rumors, we are extremely confident that we'll find 10 willing competitors who want nothing more than to
"GET IT ON!!" :corn::corn:

[George M. Purtill]

Thanks Frank. But.....
There is geographical disadvantage on both sides. Maryland is equally inconvenient to the NE and SE. Its good for Daryl, though. I think that a new venue might be just the thing we need. And I thank Steve and Dave for continuing to try to make this a good event. They are the Best guns in America.

[Frank Srebro]

Yep, and the past FPC's were equally inconvenient to those in the New England states, eastern mid-west, and the upper SE states like VA for instance. I do agree George that maybe a new venue is worth trying but it may just shift the geographical disadvantage. This will be interesting as it unfolds.

[Rich Anderson]

There is absolutely nothing close to Michigan. I routinely drive 13+ hours to both Hausmans and The Southern and another 11 to the Great Northern shoot in WI. I have never been to the Vintagers and would like to go someday but the lure of the Grouse is just to strong added to that this September my daughter is taking the long walk towards wedded bliss on the 23rd.

[Harry Collins]

Rich,

I told mine not to plan anything between the first of September and the end of January because I would be busy.

Harry

Congratulations! Is this your first child to marry? I could have had a nice new car and a high grade Parker for what was spent on the last girl child's parties, wedding and reception. At least I got more reinforcements out of the deal.

[Rich Anderson]

Harry yes this is the first one and the last as I have just the one daughter. it's her day and she will have a day to remember that's for sure.

[Dave Suponski]

Fox vs. Parker Challenge Rules 2017


1) Competition is open to members in good standing of the AHFCA or PGCA as of September 1st, 2017. Updated rosters will be on hand to verify current membership status. Dual members of AHFCA and PGCA must choose ONE Association to represent at time of registration. Anyone attempting to shoot for both Associations will be disqualified.

2) Shooters must use a shotgun promoted by the organization they choose to represent. Those shooting A.H. Fox guns and representing the AHFCA are limited to Fox guns manufactured in Philadelphia, PA, Utica, NY and New Britain, CT (CSMC Fox models). Those shooting Parker Bros. or Parker guns and representing the PGCA are limited to Parker guns manufactured in Meriden, CT, Ilion, NY and genuine, Parker Reproductions.

3) All those who wish to compete in the 2017 Fox/Parker Challenge must first shoot the American Classics course ( Friday or Saturday) at HGF. This course will serve as the “Qualification Round.”

All shooters must first pay and acquire their score cards from the registration office. You’re simply signing up to shoot the Prelim course, period. No need to mention the FPC. Before you shoot, bring your scorecard to the Fox tables. Here is where a Fox or Parker official will register you for the FPC. Immediately after shooting, return your score card to the Fox tables for recording. After tabulating, it will be returned to the registration.

Any gun may be used (12,16 or 20g). The gunner will specify the maker and gauge when signing up at the AHFCA tables. You may shoot more than one qualification round (utilizing the same maker’s gun) with a separate signup and fee due each time.

4) Qualification round(s) may be shot all day on Friday, September 22 and up until 2p.m on Saturday, September 23rd. Completed scorecards must be back into the AHFCA tables no later than 2 p.m. on Saturday, NO EXCEPTIONS. A blackboard in place there will rank the lead qualifiers and will be updated as scores are tallied throughout the day.

5) The Top-5, high-scoring Fox and Parker shooters will be selected for the respective Challenge Teams.

6) The Fox–Parker Challenge round will be conducted on HGF 5-Stand/Games field at 3 p.m. sharp on Saturday, September 23rd. A flip of the coin will decide the first team to shoot.

7) A total of 125 targets will be thrown for each team of 5 gunners. High cumulative score will decide the 2016 winning team. The cumulative score for each team will be calculated as follows: The sum of scores recorded by the HGF scorer + the official Parker scorer + the official Fox scorer. That sum will be divided by three (3) and rounded to the second decimal place. (Each scorer will use a hand operated mechanical counter.)

8 ) In the event of a trap malfunction that cannot be corrected during a team’s attempt at the Challenge targets, the HGF official will void that team’s score and a new round of 125 targets will be shot.

9) The wearing of Eye and Ear protection is required of all competitors.

10) All HGF/NSCA rules will apply for ammunition and maximum allowed shot size.

11) All shooters who qualify for the Challenge Team will receive an official Fox/Parker
Hat to commemorate this epic contest.

11. All shooters must have fun, be safe and conduct themselves in a sportsmanlike manner becoming of these two, fine organizations!

[George M. Purtill]

Thanks Dave and Steve for doing this.

[John Truitt]

Is the five stand portion run in a standard five stand format or are all 125 targets released as a continuous flurry type event?

[Dave Suponski]

Dr. John, The Challenge will be run in a 5 stand format.

[John Truitt]

Great event and idea guys. I am already looking forward to it. Have a great summer and I look forward to seeing you all in September. It is time for a TEAM PARKER VICTORY!!!!!!!!!

[Steve Cambria]

NO flurry antics or corporate-fluffy here John, I promise you! UK FITASC-like, tough-arrrrrse 5-Stand it shall be!! Lace 'em up boys....... :corn:

[John Truitt]

Thought I would add the registration flyer for the VGC.

http://www.hopkinshunting-clays.com/uploads/2017%20Hopkins%20Vintage%20Gunners%20Cup%20Flyer.p df

? for the organizers of the Challenge? Are we limited to hammerless Parkers only or can we compete in the Fox/ Parker Challenge with a hammergun as well?

Thank you.

[Mike Koneski]

John,

"2) Shooters must use a shotgun promoted by the organization they choose to represent. Those shooting A.H. Fox guns and representing the AHFCA are limited to Fox guns manufactured in Philadelphia, PA, Utica, NY and New Britain, CT (CSMC Fox models). Those shooting Parker Bros. or Parker guns and representing the PGCA are limited to Parker guns manufactured in Meriden, CT, Ilion, NY and genuine, Parker Reproductions.

Any gun may be used (12,16 or 20g). The gunner will specify the maker and gauge when signing up at the AHFCA tables. You may shoot more than one qualification round (utilizing the same maker’s gun) with a separate signup and fee due each time."

Rules do not say Parker hammer guns are not allowed. I say yes, it's Hammer Time!!

[John Truitt]

Its one of those where it does not say they cant be used and also does not say they can be used.

Just like to know from the organizers now so no BS at the time of the shoot.

Thanks Mike.

[MattHaney]

On the vendor front.....Among those who will be there (and there will be more) are:

Steve Barnett Fine Guns

James D. Julia Auctions - represented by Josh Loewensteiner

Heritage Guns

Dubarry of Ireland

Geoffroy Gournet, Master Engraver

Robin Hollow Outfitters

MacNab Fine Firearms

RST - Classic Shotshell Co., Inc.

Russell Moccasin Co.

Vintage Doubles (Kirby Hoyt)

Allgood Associated Sport Suppliers

Josh Loewenstiener with Julia's will have some very tasty Parkers and Foxes to view from the upcoming October auction.

So come on! Shoot the FPC event, see nice guns, and above all, have fun! ---Matt

[Frank Srebro]

Just some comments, the F-P Challenge rules were posted here on May 15 but I haven't seen them on the Fox site. And in contrast with 4 pages of posts on the thread here, only a few random tidbits have been posted on Fox regarding the Challenge. Just sayin, there hasn't been much there to build hype and attract and rally good Fox shooters and give them time to arrange personal schedules to travel and participate.

I can't make the Vintage event this year so all this is just intended as info.

frank

[Mike Koneski]

Vegas has the odds at Parker 5-2 and Fox 9-1. My $$ is on Parker.

[Daryl Corona]

Before I call my bookie... you will be shooting for?????:whistle:

[Mike Koneski]

Nobody. I will not be at the VC. If attending, I would be joining my Parker brothers!!

[John Truitt]

How about a head count.

Who is going to the VGC? Who will participate in the Fox Parker Challenge?

I will be there.

[Frank Srebro]

Maybe it's still too soon for gents to commit but at this point the level of interest seems low. :eek:

Just for comparison, the first formal F-P Challenge was held in 2012 when the VC moved from Pintail Point to Addieville in RI. That year 46 shooters participated in the F-P, Fox had 19 and Parker 27.

[Rich Anderson]

IMHO this event should have stayed at Hausman's

[Steve Cambria]

56038

[John Truitt]

Mr Cambria,

I hope this turns out to be a great shoot. I am looking forward to it and will what I can to support it.

All my best,

Look forward to seeing you guys in Sept at the VGC.

John

[MattHaney]

I was asked to remind folks going to the VGC that they can pre-order ammunition from RST and have it delivered to them at the VGC. Always a good way to ensure you get the ammo you want without having to lug it around both ways.

Look forward to seeing folks in MD later this month. ----Matt