How many different barrels are there?

[Kurt Sauers]

Can someone run down the different types of barrels , best to worst,their qualities and fit for today's world

Thanks

[Dean Romig]

As they pertain to Parker Bros. shotguns, from lowest grade to highest, not necessarily in perfect order, they are - Ordinance Steel, Decarbonized Steel, Twist, Plain Twist, Stub Twist, Laminated Steel (early), Damascus Steel (in several different grades and iterations), Laminated Steel (later), Bernard Steel, Vulcan Steel, Parker Steel, Parker Special Steel, Titanic Steel, Acme Steel, Whitworth Steel, Peerless Steel.

I may have missed a couple of the obscure ones... apologies.


(Edited 7:24 p.m.)





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[Kurt Sauers]

There's more than enough even if you may have missed a couple

[Mills Morrison]

Hopefully Drew Hause will chime in here. He knows more about old barrels than anyone. I will say Dean's list looks pretty complete.

[Drew Hause]

Probably more here about them new-fangled fluid steel barrels than you want to know, including tensile testing and composition analysis (the Parker barrels courtesy of Dave Suponski). Scroll down to the bottom for a summary
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dnRLZgcuHfx7uFOHvHCUGnGFiLiset-DTTEK8OtPYVA/edit
and
https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=17ixogftgITEblNUWtmFBv96ZvgjK6eFell8GsAWd-KI

Maker's could call barrels whatever they wanted, with creative assistance from the Marketing Dept. :) and it is very likely that the same Belgian sourced tubes were used by most of the U.S. gunmakers.
The ‘LLH’ of Laurent Lochet-Habran has been found on Fox, Baker, Lefever, Crescent, Ithaca (Lewis & Flues with ‘Smokeless Powder Steel’), NID, Lefever Nitro Special, Lefever M-2 single barrel, and Westernfield Deluxe/Western Arms Long Range, L.C. Smith Royal, Armor, London, Crown and Nitro barrels and Hunter Arms Fulton and “Ranger” for Sears. Baker guns may be marked “Nitro Rolled Steel” and Folsom Crescent guns “Fluid Temper Steel”.

The "Creative Naming of the Same Stuff" prize probably goes to the Hunter Arms Fulton Tradename guns: “Royal Steel”, “Special Smokeless Steel”, “London Fluid Steel”, “Peerless Steel”, “Fluid Blued Steel”, “Projectile Steel”, “Silver Steel”, “Blue Diamond Steel”, and “Missabe Fluid Steel” on “Comstock Arms Co. Duluth” guns.

Modern Chrome Moly 4140 was developed in the 20s for automobile axles and eventually became the standard shotgun barrel steel.

Pattern Welded barrel nomenclature is even more confusing :(
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IHGMMB82PAgFIzHTeoepYvzzE1uqDZSC_MTWH8vv0fE/edit

[CraigThompson]

Fluid steel damascus steel or steel twist "I" classify them in in two groups . SAFE and UNSAFE .:bigbye:

[Bill Murphy]

Which ones are safe and which ones are unsafe? I can't get my arms around that newfangled fluid steel yet.

[Drew Hause]

Just a reminder.
Double Gun Journal Vol. 10, Issue 4, Winter, 1999, “Finding Out For Myself” Part II and Vol. 16, Issue 2, Summer 2005, Part IX, Sherman Bell's destructive testing of Parker GH Dam3 and VH Vulcan Steel. Both guns were subjected to sequentially higher pressure loads at about 2,000 pounds/square inch (psi) increments. The GH testing started at 11,900 psi and one chamber ruptured at 29,620 psi. The VH started with a Proof Load of 18,560 psi. Both chambers bulged at 29,620 psi and ruptured at 31,620 psi.

[Kurt Sauers]

Just a reminder.
Double Gun Journal Vol. 10, Issue 4, Winter, 1999, “Finding Out For Myself” Part II and Vol. 16, Issue 2, Summer 2005, Part IX, Sherman Bell's destructive testing of Parker GH Dam3 and VH Vulcan Steel. Both guns were subjected to sequentially higher pressure loads at about 2,000 pounds/square inch (psi) increments. The GH testing started at 11,900 psi and one chamber ruptured at 29,620 psi. The VH started with a Proof Load of 18,560 psi. Both chambers bulged at 29,620 psi and ruptured at 31,620 psi.


So what's the pressure of your typical 1 1/4 pheasant load or steel shot waterfowl load?

[Drew Hause]

Probably less than the loads for which a 12g turn-of-the-century double was designed, and certainly less than the SAAMI max.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F2sQuPm05IE4VWYYnCkvuXmYEzQoWd_SQgaAfUOZEFU/preview

1 1/4 oz. 3 1/2 Dr. Eq. BULK Smokeless was about 11,750 psi
1 1/4 oz. 3 1/2 Dr. Eq. DENSE Smokeless was 12,600 psi
Pressure is beyond the modern SAAMI recommendation of 11,500 psi

NONE of the turn-of-the-century barrel steels were designed for steel shot Kurt

[Kurt Sauers]

Pretty much what i figured Trying to find out the top end. Plan on shooting 2 1/2 " anyways. Probably wiil use bismuth when non-toxic is required. Unless i can swing 2 guns

[Paul Harm]

Bell also tested 2 3/4" shells in 2 1/2" chambered guns and pressure only went up about 500 - can't remember exactly the pressure but not enough to worry about if you're loading low pressure loads to start with.

[John Dallas]

Deleted. Wrong forum

[Harryreed]

I want to thank the responders to this post. That is as good an explanation to pressures and Parker barrels as I have seen. The true knowledge expressed on this sight is amazing.

[charlie cleveland]

there is also a parker set of barrels marked plain steel.....charlie

[Bruce Day]

Parker and other makers drew no distinction for strength between fluid steel and pattern welded steel barrels. I don't either.

I suggest you study the SAAMI specifications, that will tell you what the maximum
chamber pressure that factory ammo is supposed to generate. Without reviewing again, I think it's 11,500 for 2 3/4" 12ga shells, such as magnum loads.

TPS in the barrels and chambers chapter has a table showing service and proof loads for Parkers of various gauges and chamber lengths. If I remember correctly , 12 ga 2 5/8 chambers are 10,200 psi service load maximum . These are for guns in as new barrel condition. I follow these loads. There are many commercial loads that meet the Parker service load limit and many that do not. So yes, a person can shoot modern loads, but not other modern loads without exceeding design standards.

Suggest you study both documents.

Of course a person can always shoot lesser loads to save shoulders, hinge joints, and stocks.

[Drew Hause]

What Bruce said.

A Parker Service and Proof Load table was published in the 1930s and reproduced in the The Parker Story p. 515.
12g 2 3/4” shell Service Pressure is 10,500 psi. Definitive proof used 7.53 Drams Black Powder and 2 oz. shot with a pressure of 15,900 psi. The pressure was no doubt measured using LUP and modern transducer values would be 10-14% higher, or more than 17,500 psi.

LTC Calvin Goddard reported the same numbers in “Army Ordnance”, 1934. He wrote that Parker followed the SAAMI standards of that period: 13,700 psi proof, 9500 psi service for 2 5/8" chamber; 15,900 psi proof, 10,500 psi service for 2 3/4" chamber (by LUP) + 10-14% for modern transducer measurement.

Of course by the 30s the remaining "time bomb" Damascus rough forged tubes had been destroyed :(

Parker- America's Finest Shotgun by Peter H. Johnson
All of these barrels and tubes used by the Parker were made in and around Liege, Belgium. So far as the knowledge of still-living Parker officials goes, none were ever successfully made in the United States. These barrels, which were imported as "rough tubes," with a low tariff were reasonable in price and very beautiful; but with the advent of progressive burning powder after World War I they were doomed as they were unsafe to use with these new and more powerful powders. So at that time Parker Brothers, certainly not to be left behind by such a plain and inescapable necessity, discontinued the use of them and started making their own barrels from the latest American steel that had been developed during World War I. It is interesting but hardly surprising to note that when Parker changed from figured barrels to those made of fluid steel the factory officials destroyed under a hammer all the barrels that they still had in inventory rather than run the risk of these barrels ever being used.