12 bore "3" frame

[Mark Ray]

I just recieved #113243, GH 12 bore, 30" damascus, dt, capped pg, 3 frame.
The thing is a beast 8lb14oz, 70% overall original condition.

I dont recall running into many 3 frame 12's. What is the groups opinion of the commonness of this configuration?

Interstingly, the serialization book has this gun as a DH.

Paid my dues, glad to be back! Been a while! Went off on an english/european gun tangent there for a bit.....

[Rick Losey]

we have had a couple threads on them

love mine -

PS
a couple threads

http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9610&highlight=frame

http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14986&highlight=frame

[Dean Romig]

They are pretty unusual.






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[Craig Larter]

They are in demand by those interested in speciality waterfowl cannons, l admit to the addiction and own two a CHE and a DHE. They come to the market only occasionally I have run a want ad on this site for a number of years with no luck. Congratulations on a great find. How about pictures. Craig

[charlie cleveland]

i have a gh 3 frame it weighs 9 lb 14 ounce heavy rascal for sure...my gun has 3 inch chambers but no factory markings...my gun has modified chokes both barrels probaly some one oped at least one barrel maybe both... if anybody finds a 3 frame 12 ga if the price is right buy it...charlie

[Jim DiSpagno]

Check out Steve Barnett's site. I have no skin in the game but seems like a very nice utilitarian waterfowl gun for the price.

[Richard Flanders]

"English/European gun tangent?" Poor boy. I think there's an inoculation for that unfortunate malady....:rolleyes:

[Mark Ray]

Thanks Guys, and Craig, I will try and get some photo's up in the next day or so.

Glad to be back, and although I am only up to three Parker's in my collection, the diversity of nuances individualizing every piece is really interesting. From my first Parker a couple of years ago, a "Three Dog" DH,"1" frame Damascus made in 1889 in 90% original condition, the VH half pistol with "Doo Dads" as Dean and a couple of others gathered ( I bought that gun from Russ Jackson), to this interesting 3 frame GH.

Might have to start concentrating on these guns.

I haven't measured the GH for dimension yet, but by the way it shoulders, I am confident there is no more than 2" DAH, and around 14 1/4" LOP.

[Craig Larter]

One other point they do bring a substantial price premium over the common 1 1/2 and 2 frame guns of at least 50 to 75% from my observations.

[Mark Ray]

I needed the inoculation Richard! It turned out to be about a 20 gun tangent! Although there were highlites! Namely a Lindner Charles Daly 20, Diamond Quality with straight butt and beavertail fore end.

[Mark Ray]

okay, to add to the weirdness....the barrels are just 4lbs 3oz.

[Ed Blake]

All the weight is between your hands. I bet it's a lively one.

[wayne goerres]

The inoculation doesn't work. Its just like parkeritize you cant get rid of it.

[Richard Flanders]

If you obtained a Diamond grade SG 20ga Daly, I want the vitamins you're taking Mark! That would be a dream gun for me also!

[Dean Romig]

I know a certain LC lady (M.F.) has a stunning little 20 ga. Crown grade S.G. Elsie. It was featured in a recent issue of DGJ.






.

[Mark Ray]

Thanks guys...it has been a good year on the acquisition side. The Daly though was in abused shape, it had a decent sleeve job, but some knucklehead tried to Machine jewel the flats and table, almost removing the Lindner provenance, in addition to cutting the butt short and adding a beautiful (gasp) whiteline pad. I sent the gun up to Mark Larson for a butt extension and grain match and checkered butt, that is flawless and stunning. The gun is an ejector, with incredible engraving, including a pointing setter and flushing quail gold ornament on the triggerplate, and a pair of gold snipe on the trigger bow. Cocking indicators and intercepting sears round out the package. the action is tight as new. The gun is now sort of a Resto-Mod, but beautiful. True south texas quail gun with IC and Imp, 24" tubes. I had it finished at 14 3/4" pull, and it already had high dimensions. I will try and take photos this weekend of that gun, and the "3" frame Parker. Just got the Daly back from Larson on Monday. He is a true magician!
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[Bill Murphy]

I can't wait for the pictures.

[Mark Ray]

it has been so long...trying to remember how to get photos from iphone to here!

[Rick Losey]

it has been so long...trying to remember how to get photos from iphone to here!

one of the easiest ways is to create an album, you can upload right from the phone to the album

then you can either just link the album or copy the image location (right click) and post it in your thread with the image button above

http://parkerguns.org/pages/faq/DemoMovie/PlayUploadPictureVedio.html

Bill will show you how :clap: :rotf: - sorry cheap shot but too easy to pass on

[Mark Ray]

53507Here is the Daly.... [ATT53509ACH]53508[/ATTACH]I am a crappy photogra53510pher!

[Mark Ray]

5351353512

[Mark Ray]

53515Three 53516Frame Parker G grade5351753518

[Mark Ray]

5352053522]53521[/ATTACH]535235352453525

[Craig Larter]

Thanks that is a super nice 3 frame Parker and a great Wisconsin gunning box. Wow! I see the small 3 but what is the other lighter mark?

[Mark Ray]

That is actually a tiny little "8" on the breech end, the "3" is the larger light mark towards the muzzle. It is VERY faint, I had to use paper and do a graphite rubbing to confirm. Then I measured between the pins and confirmed that it was 1/16" wider than my "2" frame. have no idea what the significance of the tiny 8 is

[Craig Larter]

Have u measured the bores chokes and chambers? I would love to know the measurements. I hope u get a PGCA letter.

[Mark Ray]

Letter ordered, when I get a minute I'll do the rest. Although the gun is really in good shape, the bores are in "extraordinary" shape? Which always makes one think honing. Will report soon.

[Ed Blake]

The unstruck weight of those barrels is lighter than many #2 frame guns. Interesting.

[Dean Romig]

Mark, just out of curiosity - what is the separation between firing pin centers? A 2-frame would be 1 1/8" while a 3-frame would be 1 3/16". In your picture of the bottom of the lug I am having a hard time seeing a 3 stamped there.






.

[wayne goerres]

I can defiantly see what looks like a 3 but it looks different. It looks smaller to me than what I am used to seeing.

[Mark Ray]

I have measured multiple times, definitely 1 3/16ths, plus compared directly with a 2 frame, they are 1/16th about wider at the pins. The frame across the flats the same story. The "3" is about in the right place, you can only really see the top bow of the 3, it is poorly struck, when shading with graphite on white paper it becomes totally visible, and looks correct.

The barrels have quite a bit of swamp to them, and ring more like upland tubes than waterfowl tubes. There is an ivory mud bead, with a silver bead at the muzzle. The diemsions are really high also, so I am starting to think pigeon gun.

[Mark Ray]

The other clue that the gun was a pigeon gun is the condition. Although checkering worn flat and quite a bit of receiver polish, the gun has little "field" wear (dings bumps scratches etc), and little evidence that it was ever routinely wet. In fact the table, flats and forend iron exhibit 100% colors and blue, as thought the gun mainly spent its time put together.
Cannot wait to get the letter, hoping it will shed some light to this interesting gun!

[Mike Franzen]

Welcome back Mark. I was wondering what happened to you. Looks like you've been busy.

[Mark Ray]

Thanks Mike, my volunteer commitments and my professional commitments got pretty thick. I have still been collecting, but just not taking time to discuss it much.

[Mark Ray]

Okay. finally got a few measurements.
Bore R..730 L..730
Choke R..685 L..660
Wall Thickness at end of forcing cone. .114 both barrels
at Muzzle . .048 both barrels
Minimum Wall .030
Chambers are 2 3/4

[Rick Losey]

.070 choke in the left? :shock:

[Bill Murphy]

Something is wrong with the yardstick used to measure the chokes.

[Mark Ray]

You could be right Bill.

[Mark Ray]

Triple checked, and i will say that the left barrel is .675, so still .055. Tighter than "dicks hatband!"

[Rick Losey]

Triple checked, and i will say that the left barrel is .675, so still .055. Tighter than "dicks hatband!"

Yup

But sounds more believable

[Mark Ray]

I definitely need better tools. As far as I can tell,there is no one closer than 150 miles from here that really messes with these old guns. Do really no "close" expert to take them to.

[Mark Ray]

Got the letter....no mention of "3" frame, but the gun configuration, etc. are spot on....shows to be choked LH and RH Full.

The interesting part is the purchaser. It was ordered by the Charles Parker Co. in NY, apparently this was a Parker Family Member that was engaged in the ornamental Lamp business. So if this were Charles Parker, or Charles Parker Jr.'s personal gun, that would be pretty cool!

The gun was ordered on 3/26/03, almost exactly 114 years ago!....I keep wondering to myself what a Remington 1100 made 114 years ago, might look like today!

[Craig Larter]

I believe the CPC NY was the Sales Office in NYC. Many guns were ordered by the NY Sales Office. So it was most likely a gun order for a sale made by the NYC sales office, not related to a member of the Parker family. Still a nice gun enjoy, Craig

[Mark Ray]

Thanks Craig!

Oh well, wish in one hand and *^%# in the other!