the unofficial pachmayr upgrade thread

[bob kuczynski]

I didn't see a specific forum for them , so if you want, lets post them here?
some may cry foul and consider them gaudy and un-parkerlike, but just between you and me, I like flashy shotguns.
I saw my first pachmayr upgrade at the Richmond show where the PCA had 3 tables set up. I fell in love with the one I have now.
I had to have it.
sure, its not the czars A1, but it was just what this young single sailor needed.
its a 26" vr ic/mod, sst, btfa, ejt, skeleton buttplate....and gold everywhere.
anyone else have a fancy for these upgrades?

I know there is a book out on them, but id sure like to discuss them here one on one. got anything to share?
numbers made? popularity? value?
ok...I started, your turns!

[Bill Murphy]

What book? That is a wonderful gun.

[bob kuczynski]

Frank Pachmayr: The Story of America's Master Gunsmith and His Guns
Hardcover
January 28, 1997 by John Lachuk

[bob kuczynski]

I take it theres not much interest in pach-parkers?
or are they somewhat scarce?
does anyone here have one?

[Kenny Graft]

I like it...not over-done like some gold embellished guns. Top lever work looks to be of a grouse?? Send pics of the rest of her...(-: thanks SXS Ohio

[Rex Northen]

Would enjoy seeing some additional pics!

[bob kuczynski]

are they somewhat scarce?
does anyone here have one?
has anyone seen one at shows or a recent pca meet?

[Dean Romig]

There are several Pachmayr Parker upgrades at the Buffalo Bill Museum in Cody, WY.





.

[bob kuczynski]

now that's encouraging.
anyone here have one?

[bob kuczynski]

see any for sale on the net?

[JAMES HALL]

Here's one

[bob kuczynski]

for sale? any specs?

[Harryreed]

That's impressive :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

[JAMES HALL]

Not for sale. 16 ga. 30 inch 1 frame

[bob kuczynski]

sorry. thought you were answering post 10.

[Eric Eis]

see any for sale on the net?

They come up for sale once in a while, there are two types of Pachmayr upgrades IMHO, ones like yours that had a lot of time and money spent on them, and then you can run across a DU upgrade that was used as a raffle gun at a DU event. These do not seem to be as finally finished as a gun like yours.

[Brian Dudley]

Jims example above is a good example of one of these upgrades that actually look close to an original Parker by way of style. A lot of them dont and are more a along the lines of true custom built guns.

[Kirk Potter]

http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/shotguns/parker-shotguns/parker-invincible-12-gauge-pachmayr-upgrade-11-gold-inlays.cfm?gun_id=100727900

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/627811062

[Eric Eis]

http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/shotguns/parker-shotguns/parker-invincible-12-gauge-pachmayr-upgrade-11-gold-inlays.cfm?gun_id=100727900

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/627811062

Like I said, there were great ones upgraded like Jimmy's, and then there are the other upgrades.

[bob kuczynski]

did anyone notice the boogered rib signature on the GI one for sale?
seems to me the classic...measured with micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an axe.

[bob kuczynski]

so what is the general concensus on pach guns?
I see 2 camps...some nice some cheap.
im wondering, did mr. pachmayr have engravers of different levels of skill working for him, where his name went on everything, or did he just have good days and bad days?

[Bill Murphy]

Different skill level, different attitudes, different price points, and most important, different demand level from customers. The bottom line is that we will never see such a company in the future. Today, the customer is largely responsible for the quality of his custom gun.

[bob kuczynski]

did people send their guns in or did pach buy a parker and do it?

[Eric Eis]

did people send their guns in or did pach buy a parker and do it?

Both. The donation guns are not up to the same standards as the true customer ordered guns.

[Sam Ogle]

I saw one at an Iowa DU some 25? years ago. It was to be raffled off to one lucky winner in the U.S. I thought it was really a wonderful gun at the time. The one I remember was lavishly (over) done. At the time, I had not yet owned any Parker, but it did start the fires burning.
Sam Ogle, Nebraska

[Fred Lauer]

Had the same experience with the Pachmayr gun at a DU banquet. Not my cup of tea but certainly was worth a look and a good fund raiser piece.

[bob kuczynski]

I know sometimes records are sold to collectors groups. just wondering who holds it or if its still is possible to run my serial in the pachmayr books, to see who had mine done and when?

[Bill Murphy]

Easy, call them.

[Carl G. Bachhuber]

As a kid I got to wander around Pachmayr's on a few occasions as the shop was just a couple of blocks from my dad's office. My impression (purely subjective) was not great. Frank Pachmayr had no time for a kid in jeans and a t-shirt; too far below his pay grade. His prices were very high even for mundane stuff and his gunsmithing was ok but there were better 'smiths in the L.A. area at the time. The people that worked in the shop were usually very friendly and helpful and I liked talking to them. As a kid I felt he mucked up more Parkers than he helped. The work was beautiful but just not true to the original form, if that makes sense. I believe his engraving was done by someone in Germany and the stocks were done in-house. To this day I can spot one of his guns from across the room; they just have a certain look to them. And he bought one of my dad's cohorts DHE 28 ga for a song and I am still P.O.ed about that as I was just a kid and couldn't afford to buy it for my self.
C.G.B.

[Sam Ogle]

Thanks Carl; that was a very interesting post. The one I saw made me want a Parker; so over the years, I have had and own a couple. (One 32" VH with a custom made stock; and a 28"28 Ga. Repro with double triggers, straight stock, and beavertail F.E.)
I shoot both a lot.
Your story made me feel as if I were there.
Sincerely;
Sam Ogle, Lincoln, NE

[Richard Flanders]

I don't want to corrupt this thread but these Pachmayr guns remind me of some that were upgraded for someone in Anchorage some years back. My friend Trigg owned the 2-gun set, which ended up at Steve Barnette's, I think. The single gun was at a shop and was eventually redone to nicely remove the "Crazy Man" gold inlay for a buyer. I have tons of pictures of these guns if anyone is really interested.

[Brian Dudley]

Carl, i feel like your assessment is closer to reality than just opinion.

[bob kuczynski]

pm me. i might be.

[Dave Moore]

I have been meaning to post these pics since this thread started. A1 Special 28ga 00 frame with 30" barrels upgraded by Pachmayr.

[Sam Ogle]

I find them beautiful Dave.

[bob kuczynski]

very nice.

[bob kuczynski]

what would be a price range for these pretty guns I see posted?

[Sam Ogle]

I, too am interested. As I recall, they are quite expensive, not some "bargain basement deal."
Sam Ogle, Lincoln, NE

[Bill Mullins]

In 1984 my family and I were traveling from Tennessee through the LA area and I stopped to visit the Pachmyer store. I met his secretary that had been with him for years.
Frank had recently sold his business and was not there. She invited me into his
office in which several high grade European and American doubles were in his
private gun cabinet. There were also a couple of beautiful Parker upgrades, too.
She gave me a tour of the business. She showed me the area he stored hundreds of gun stock blanks. She said Frank would spend hours each day grading them.... his favorite thing to do! She told me a story that after Frank sold his business he came in one day and saw where the new owners had reduced the price of many of the guns he had sold them. He was so upset he
wrote them a check on the spot for over a million dollars and bought many of
the guns back! Most had been moved into his private office which I got to see. He told them "he had paid more for them than they had them priced"! His secretary said he was eccentric and could afford to be!

[bob kuczynski]

great story. now lets hear some numbers.

[Bill Murphy]

Dave, no sign of that gun on the website. Where can we find out the details?

[bob kuczynski]

wow...ok, values of pach guns is for the most part unknown. hmmm. looks like a good collectors niche to study!

[Brian Dudley]

They are custom guns of varying quality from gun to gun. They are worth what someone will pay. Period.

[bob kuczynski]

if that's the case, no one would be discussing costs on this website for any parker. they all are what someones willing to pay.
'willing' is future tense. im looking for past tense.
point im looking for is....what are some prices people have gotten or saw out there in the world, currently.
its a fair and legit question. follow me? thanks.

[Brian Dudley]

if that's the case, no one would be discussing costs on this website for any parker.

Far from the case. With 240,000 Parker guns built and a long history of market value information tracked over the years, and also a wide offering of Parkers for sale on the internet at any given time leaves little to question on market values of commonly found Parkers. Trojan up through, for the sake of argument, C or B grade. And there are good track records of performance of higher grade guns in auction houses.
Top grade original Parkers also fall into the category of “worth what someone will pay” because there are far less examples out there and pricing them can be difficult and no one really knows where the ceiling may be for those high grade examples.

Like i said, these “upgrades” are custom guns, not originals, that were put together in limited numbers and in varying levels of quality. So, again, they are not easy to assign a general value to. And there is not a established matket for them.
If someone here has experience in buying or selling one of these guns, then they may be willing to share. Maybe you??? Do you want to share what you paid for yours?
Until one of those two things happen, your repetitive question will have to remain unanswered.

[Bruce Day]

Put it on auction and you can find out how much it is worth.

Sounds like you want to know how much you can get for yours.

[Brian Dudley]

Just like the classic question: “i just inherited this gun, what is it worth?”

That translates to: “who wants to buy this gun and what will they give me?”

[Bill Murphy]

Bob, I found a good selection of Pachmayr upgrades on Julia's previous auctions category. Sign in to see price information. Search "pachmayr parker". You will get a bunch of sales with Pachmayr pads, but the upgrades show up also. I think the Julia guns must have been Pachmayr's best.

[Brian Dudley]

Well bobski, there are several pach guns in the upcoming Rock island auction. You can see what those bring.

[bob kuczynski]

wish I could. website wont load.
could you be a gent and post what happens?

[bob kuczynski]

so, how did those auctions turn out?

[Brian Dudley]

And you cannot look up the results yourself because...?

[bob kuczynski]

and because im on dial up xp with ie7?

[Brian Dudley]

The two Parkers in the April auction sold for around $25k. Estimates were exceeded by a good amount.

[Joe Graziano]

From what I see, they start at around $5k and go up from there, depending on the level of embellishment.

[Bill Murphy]

OK, Bob, here's your chance. Order an RIA auction catalog for this month and wait for the prices realized sheet to be mailed to you. There are two Parkers and a bunch of 21s upgraded by Pachmayr in that sale. Morphy's Julia results search is the best way to get more results.

[allen newell]

I recall back in the 1960's one uncle of mine brought his GHE out of his gun cabinet to show my dad and I how pleased he was with the work of Pachmeyer on his Parker. He had them (for lack of a better term) black the barrels and frame. Even then i had seen enough Parkers in our family to know these colors were wrong. Gun remains ugly to this day.

[bob kuczynski]

so its hit or miss out the factory.
such was life back then, I guess.

[Alan Phillips]

Posted this before but lost because of misspelling Pachmayr. Was ordered for a birthday gift for Frank by his brother John. John passed away before delivery and the shotgun ended up in John's estate. 57 multi colored gold inlays. For those who like this type of work, enjoy.

[bob kuczynski]

very nice.

[bob kuczynski]

im contemplating selling my avatar gun. this topic helped me get an idea for where it stands in current reality. thanks guys.

[John Allen]

Several of the Pachmayr guns caused DU a lot of trouble.Pachmayr donated one gun to each DU state chapter to be raffled off.When the winner got his gun he also got a bill from the IRS based on Pachmayr's tax evaluation of the value.In many cases the tax bill was twice the current real value of the gun.DU had several lawsuits because of this.Many of the guns were returned to DU.They were not all Parkers.There were model 21s,Merkels,LC Smiths.and several upgraded Spanish guns.