Research letter info.

[Bob Dombeck]

I sent off for a research letter on a 10ga hammer gun that I'm interested in buying. It is in the serial #327xx range. It is a Quality S top action with twist barrels, 13 1/2" LOP, with special instructions of no extended rib and to shoot extra close.
Chokes each patterned at 250 pellets of size 8 shot in a 24" circle at 45 yards.
First off, any idea why one would order a gun without the dolls head?
Has any one else had a gun ordered with this tight of a pattern request?
It was nice to see that it was actually ordered by an individual and not just a general store etc. I assume that was because of the short LOP and no extended rib.
I just thought this was a neat letter that I'd share.
Thank you.

[calvin humburg]

Pre dolls head? I have 22266 no dolls head. This should be in hammer gun heading.

[Bob Dombeck]

I wasn't sure what year dolls heads became standard. Moderator if you think this thread should be moved to the hammer gun forum, feel free to do so.

[Bob Dombeck]

If I'm reading this correct in The Parker Story, guns manufactured after 1882 came standard with a dolls head and this gun which was ordered and delivered in 1883 would have come with the dolls head but was ordered without one. That was why I was just curious as to why somebody would order a gun without the dolls head? Just personal preference or was there a specific reasoning behind it? I know I'll never know positively but I wondered if this was fairly common request on research letters that others have ordered.

[Bill Murphy]

"No extension" is a scarce request, all the way up into the mid hammerless period. Competition shooters sometimes prefer that the clean breech face facilitates loading. Ejector guns all have a rib extension.

[George Lang]

A DH without the rib extension just recently sold on this site, also without a safety, listed as alive bird gun. Ser # in 97000 range.

[todd allen]

Judging by the choke/pattern/shot size instructions, I'm guessing a pigeon shooter ordered that gun.
I have heard that the doll's head extension was seen by some as an unnecessary expense.

[Bob Dombeck]

When I did a quick Google search of the original owners name, all I came up was that he was a member of a poultry association. At least the name, city and time period match up.

[Bob Brown]

Was there a requested weight for the gun? I think the rules called for pigeon guns to be limited in weight to under 8 pounds, so usually the requested specs asked for 7 lb. 14 oz. or something similar.

[Bob Dombeck]

Not a requested weight but delivered weight was 10lbs 4oz.

[calvin humburg]

Tight chokes, 22266 is a 12 gauge with .775 bores .720 at muzzle.

[edgarspencer]

22266 is a 12 gauge with .775 bores .720 at muzzle.

:shock: Cheerio Choked

[Chuck Bishop]

Calvin, I would be surprised if those bores came from the factory with .775 bores. .755 bores, yes, that is commonly seen but you are at the 10 gauge dimension.

[Dean Romig]

To shoot extra close.
Chokes each patterned at 250 pellets of size 8 shot in a 24" circle at 45 yards.


That is about as "extra close" as could be ordered.:shock:





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[Chuck Bishop]

Duplicate

[calvin humburg]

Suppose someone was trying to hone out pits? They did both bores the same and at least they left the chokes alone. Old guns works great on pheasant if you want to pack it. I tend to grab the Trojan 16. If only I had a hammer 16 to grab. ch

[Michael Moffa]

As to the Dolls head transition, please check "Parker Pages" Parkers Found section. I own both the last and first known around the transition point. They are described in the list.

[Dean Romig]

Michael, 24971 is shown in Parkers Found as being the earliest gun without(?) a doll's head extension. It is also shown as being a Grade 2 10-gauge built on a 1-frame. Is this your gun? Is all that information correct?

And 25977 is shown just below 24971 as being the latest reported hammer gun without a doll's head extension...



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[Tom Hawkins]

A new to me Grade 5, 4 frame with reversed chokes and no extension #26276 10 ga. is a little later than the one listed in the parker pages.

[Bob Dombeck]

So this gun serial #327XX will be the latest known without a dolls head?

[Michael Moffa]

According to the TPS the inflection point for top lever hammer guns without and with the dolls head is 25981 and 25982. I have 25977 and 25998.

[Dean Romig]

Anyone owning, and being able to verify his claim about a Parker being "the first, last, or only known" to have a particular attribute, should contact Josh Loewensteiner, keeper of the "Parkers Found" registry.





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[Brian Dudley]

The transition period between lifter action to top action was in the mid 20,000s.

The most common scenario encountered is the check-hook lifter action which is a lifter with the long water table and check hook of the top action guns. I would say that not a ton of top action guns without rib extensions were made at the later side of the transition.

I would think that any top action guns without rib extensions after 30,000 serial number would have been specifically ordered that way. I have seen top action guns with no dolls head in the mid 50,000 and even above 100,000. But they were special orders.

[Bob Dombeck]

Thanks for the clarification Brian. This was a special order request according to the letter so I guess that would mean that it's not the highest serial numbered gun to not have the dolls head.
I did PM Josh as mentioned above but I'm sure he'll just clarify what you already stated.
Not a big deal to me, just kind of a neat gun.

[Dean Romig]

Simply as a point of interest, a very small number of hammerless Parkers were ordered without the doll's head extension by very serious competition shooters, but is was never a standard (or option offered in a catalog) feature.






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[edgarspencer]

Jeff Kuss posted this picture, just two years ago, of a nice VH 20ga

[Michael Moffa]

When did the Trojan drop the rib extension?

[Dean Romig]

Before '21 or '22 I think.





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[Bob Dombeck]

If I need to add to the stock length to make it more shootable for me, is there a manufacturer of a pad with the widow's peak inlet? I'm sure if need be I could use a slip on pad but would prefer a screw on option.

[Rick Losey]

https://www.connecticutshotgun.com/product/correct-period-pad/

[Brian Dudley]

The CSMC Period pads have a spur that is far too small to work with original dhbp spur inletting.
I normally remove the spur from an old broken dhbp and glue it to a flat pad and then grind the pad to fit.
If the job is done right, the original buttplate can be swapped back onto the gun if needed without much trouble.

[Dean Romig]

That has been my experience too Brian. Nice pad otherwise...






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[Bob Dombeck]

I believe this gun has the metal butt plate with the widow's peak. Is this inletting different than the plastic DHBP inletting?

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

This gun is a titanic barreled grade 3 hammer gun ordered with no rib extension ser number range 106000, Brian did the barrel work and some touch up, Gary

[Brian Dudley]

That has been my experience too Brian. Nice pad otherwise...






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Thier "Silvers No. 3" pad grinds and hand sands SO much better than the "period correct" pad. And they offer it in both orange and red.

[Bob Brown]

xxxx

[Bill Murphy]

The Griffin and Howe repro Silver pad has a widow's peak. I have been using them since 1986 and like them. No, the peak is not as deep as a Parker dog's head peak. You install it and fill the void with black bedding compound and a release agent or wax. The metal and hard rubber inletting is different, but it is all hand work anyhow. Brian's method is great as long as you have perfectly fitting buttplates in your junk box.

[Brian Dudley]

They dont have to be perfectly fitting. Just big enough to be fitted. But you do need a selection of junk.

[wayne goerres]

I can't beleave that we are referring to such prize possessions as junk.

[John Dallas]

Maybe "junque"?

[Dean Romig]

I think he was referring to extra used butt plates, screws, old pads, spacer plates, etc. - ergo, "junk."





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[John Dallas]

Reminds me of a sign a man had on his table at OGCA - "How come all my stuff is sh*t, and your sh*t is stuff?"

[Brian Dudley]

I think he was referring to extra used butt plates, screws, old pads, spacer plates, etc. - ergo, "junk."





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You got it dean. Old broken buttplates is what i was referring to.

[wayne goerres]

Sorry guys it was to good to pass up.

[Bob Dombeck]

I received the above mentioned gun today. I tried to check the bore diameter with my Skeets gauge but it doesn't appear to go large enough. Did they make a gauge specifically for the 10 gauge? The instruction sheet gives a nominal bore dia. of .775 for a 10ga. The gauge went up to about .782 but it would still rattle around inside the bore so I couldn't get an accurate reading. The constriction on each barrel was about .765
Do you think that since the gun was ordered to shoot extra close that it would have had a larger than normal bore diameter for some reason??