What grade is this lifter?

[Larry Stauch]

I bought this 10 gauge lifter with 30" barrels the other day and I requested a letter, but Chuck told me the entry is too smeared to read it so I'm asking the members to help me out with their considerable knowledge of what this might be. It's in the book as a D, but as I recall in these days they were referred to as dollar grades. Thanks in advance for your input.

[Eric Eis]

Not sure I'll wait for others that know more then me but that is on beautiful gun. 12 or 10ga?

[Rick Losey]

I think it was called the wow grade :whistle:

what a survivor

[Dave Noreen]

I'd think that amount of profiling on the breech balls would equate to a D-Grade or Quality 3.

[Jim DiSpagno]

I would suggest a $150.00 grade or a quality 3 "D" by the shape of the bolsters but engraving seemingly more than a D grade. Maybe a $175.00 grade. Many variations on the early guns.

[Dave Suponski]

Yup...D grade or grade three. The four pin locks are a dead giveaway.

[Brian Dudley]

I was going to saw at first that the gun, based on grade level, should have drop points on the stock. But in one photo i see what is left of VERY worn drop points. So they are there.

These early guns can be a little difficult to tell the dollar grade for sure. I would also say it is equal to a grade 3 gun. Another clue is the pointed checkering pattern. A grade 4 equal would usually have more organic edge to the front of the checkering pattern.

The engraving scenery is very nice. The scenes with hunters and dogs are very similar in style to that of the "chiken thief" gun.

[John Powers]

100 or 150 dollar grade. I have a 100 dollar grade with no game scenes.

[Dean Romig]

I would say it is likely the dollar equivalent ($150 or $175) to the grade 3 or grade 4.

The four pins in the lock plate make the gun a minimum of grade 3 but could be higher.

We have seen the sides of bolsters sculpted in that manner on lower graded guns than grade 3 (case in point, Tom Latham's 20 ga. lifter, ser No. 10165 - picture below) but the sporting scenes are somewhat more elaborate than those we are accustomed to seeing on a grade 3 lifter.

Of interest to note is the manner of dress of the sportsman depicted in the vignettes. Where he is seated he appears to be wearing the tunic or coat of a military man and in both left and right side vignettes his boots appear to be like those worn by a cavalry officer of the War Between the States.

If there is information available from our research chairman we may learn some interesting things about the mysteries of this gun.


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[JohnCzarnecki]

Absolutely beautiful gun.... Congratulations

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

What are the initials in the shield? Engraving is special, nice gun, Gary

[Eric Eis]

What are the initials in the shield? Engraving is special, nice gun, Gary

I was wondering when you would show up....:rotf: A graded hammer gun, I thought it was a $175 to $200 gun, but I was waiting for you to say, and you ask about the initials on the shield....:shock: Come on Gary, what do you think the grade is ?

[Dean Romig]

IMHO the engraving was done by the same engraver who engraved so many of the higher quality lifters of the time, such as Gary's 'Cow Gun', 'Chicken Theif Gun', and others we have seen

[Larry Stauch]

I'm pretty sure they are W.C.D.G.

Thanks guys for all the information. I'm thinking about doing a full restoration, any thoughts on that idea?

See you in Las Vegas!!

[Rick Losey]

that is an eternal question only you can answer

Personally - I like it as a survivor with well earned wear

[Bruce Day]

Clearly 1860's Civil War era Union Calvary officers dress. By the mid 1870's the boots were shorter and the hat had changed to either a cap or the formed style rather than a slouch hat.

Of course that change in uniform standards would not prevent a veteran of the Civil War from requesting pictorial engraving of an earlier uniform style. I wonder if a veteran had come into money post war and wanted his nice high end Parker to commemorate glory days riding with Sheridan or Custer.

[Dave Suponski]

The more I study this gun the more convinced I am that my first impression of this gun being a grade 3 gun is wrong. I am thinking grade 4. What a great gun.

[Craig Larter]

Dave can you explain why you think it is a grade 4? Just tryin to learn. Thanks Craig

[Dave Suponski]

c
Craig, A few things jump out at me. The four pin locks are found only on grade 3 and higher guns. The D4 stamp on the barrels is a clue.Also the chain engraving on the boarders is typical of grade 4 guns. And lastly the the style and shape of the barrels bolsters and hammers are very reminiscent of a couple of grade four lifters I have inspected.

[Dean Romig]

Xxx - deleted - typo posted.

[Dean Romig]

This is a known Grade 3 lifter. Although about 13,000 guns later than the subject gun the engraving on the subject gun is far superior to this known grade 3.

If the subject gun turns out to be a $150 Quality gun the engraving must surely have been done by special request or special order, and may have commanded a premium over the base price of the gun.
We may also learn that special consideration may have been given in regard to the price of the gun and, in fact, may never learn the actual dollar quality of the gun.


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[Gary Carmichael Sr]

I Believe it is a 150.00 grade gun, obviously engraved by Glhan. I believe if it were a higher dollar grade you would start to see the teat in the bolster as you see in the later graded guns like grade 4. I think that extra engraving was asked for on this gun, just my thoughts, I have some paper work on dollar grades that Ron gave me I will look and see if there is anything pertaining to this gun, Gary

[Chuck Bishop]

Here is a copy of the stock book entry for this gun, that's all I have for this gun. As you can see, the only thing it shows is the barrel steel, gauge, and barrel length. The red D and red highlighted 10/30 was entered by Roy Gunther when he edited the books. We just have to trust him that he entered the correct data. Larry had sent me pictures before he posted this thread and below, you can see my response to him. My advice as to grade is pretty much exactly as everyone's opinion. It's a great gun!

If I had to guess, it's equivalent to a D grade hammer gun which would be called a $150 Dollar grade gun in that time period. It also has some nice panel engraving and the amount of engraving could possibly bring it to a $200 Dollar grade gun. Most of the $200 Dollar grade and $250 Dollar grade guns had a spur on the side of the bolsters and yours doesn't have that. One of the problems with identifying these real early guns is that the engraving and sculpturing varied so much it's hard to grade them properly. I have a 1880 D grade hammer gun which has very little engraving but another D grade hammer gun in the same time period can have much more engraving. Nothing was standard in those early days.

[Jeffrey H. Smith]

I realize I'm a little late with this post, but I haven't been on the forum in some time.
Thought it'd be worth mentioning that your gun bares some resemblance to mine. My gun being made in 1874, excludes it from the order books which I guess didn't start until 1877. My serial no. is 4084, not all that far from yours and the engraving compares of our guns to likely be the same engraver - that of Jacob Glahn.
Compare for yourself, and I welcome others to as well. Glahn in my opinion was one uniquely engraver, I especially like his eye for detail, creative scrolls and borders, and anatomic accuracy.
You can view other post and discussion on my gun in this Hammergun forum around 2/9/2016, titled "New Member/Inherited Early 10 Ga."
I'll attach a few pics of my gun for your comparisons.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

These are from serial # 3229

[Jeffrey H. Smith]

Thanks Gary for posting the pics of your similarly engraved lifter. It is just so interesting to study these different guns of this era, trying to decipher what might have been the theme and personality of each of these unique guns. The one you have there in the original case with ammo and accessories intact is just amazing, so incredibly hard to find these days and so many years old. I assume that gun falls in the "Quality D" grade class? Mine was speculated as that, which equated to a $105 Dollar Grade gun because 10 ga. from what I was told.
I see you mentioned having some other reference materials relating to "Dollar Grade Guns", would there be any information relating to my gun in that material? I sure would like to find something out about the history of my gun. I know so little other than the original owner may have been from Upstate NY. I think of my gun as "The Four Dogs Gun" being that it highlights 4 different hunting dogs. I've not yet seen another gun that features 4 Sporting Dogs this way. I've not been able to identify anything else significant other than the scrolls, borders and other attributes that are unique and quite variable. I sure would welcome any other speculation from others as to my gun's significance to its era. Thanks!

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Jeffrey, Notice the bolsters on the gun in the case it is the same gun a s the close ups but the grade of the gun is I believe 250.00 grade I will post a couple more photos for you, Gary

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Jeffrey, could not find any ting on your gun in the few papers i have. Your gun had to be special ordered with extra engraving, Very fine gun, Gary

[Jeffrey H. Smith]

Thank you Gary for taking the time to reply, I see the teardrop bolsters now on your gun. I believe that was the benchmark to the next tier and beyond in Parker quality as I'm sure you know. Thank you as well for posting more pictures of the engravings on your gun. That clearly is a higher grade than mine and a gun of outstanding appeal. A Glahn engraved gun it appears? I recall now seeing other photo snippets of that gun within these forums and have admired its many attributes.
I see the hinge pin on that gun was at least engraved some where mine is not. I was wondering when Parker began the relief fit of the hinge pin along with more elaborate engraving there? The relief hinge pin then became a symbol of Parkers setting it apart from others is what I think I read? Just wondered when they made that transition.
also, I think I speak for many a forum follower that anytime you post pictures of your collection of early Glahn Lifters.... well they are truely amazing guns, a real pleasure to see.
Thank you for sharing.