Confused

[Don Somers]

Hi I'm new here and need some help. I have my great grandfathers Parker 10ga. side by side. First, I have looked up the s/n (7735) and it is said to be newer than the engraving on the rib between the bbl's it states " Manufactured for M. Hoag 1869 Seneca Falls NY." Secondly I can't find a frame size, grade or any other markings any where on the gun. the side plates are engraved with hunting dogs on point and the underside of the trigger guard has what look like a Sand piper the wood is very rich and in great cond. The bbl's are marked Laminated Steel. Could this gun be restored to be a shooter? there are parts missing however, both hammers and one firing pin and the little cover on the under lever.
Any help and or advise is greatly appreciated.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Don, Book says 10gauge grade 2 with 30" barrels, the gun dates to 1876 manufacture so I do not know about the rib inscription, was your great grandfather M Hoag from Seneca Falls? Gary

[Rick Losey]

Don, it would be a big help if you could post some clear pictures of the gun and its markings

[Dean Romig]

Dave Fjelline is making hammers for Parkers. I had the opportunity to examine a pair and they are very high quality and reasonably priced. He even has them engraved by request at not much more money. He is a super nice guy and a "Parker Gentleman".






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[Rick Losey]

this M Hoag?

http://www.co.seneca.ny.us/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/The-Hoag-House.pdf

[Don Somers]

Yes thats him, I don't know much other than that posted by OH Osthaus and I don't rember my dad talking much about him.
Thanks for the lead on the hammers.
Thanks to you all

[Don Somers]

I'm hoping to get the gun restored for my grandson. any suggestions as to how to contact Dave Fjelline?

[Rick Losey]

from an earlier post

Dave Fjelline,916-521-1334

[Don Somers]

Thank you very much I'll give him a call

[Eric Estes]

Don, some of the early guns did not have a frame size stamped on the barrel lug. You can measure and determine yourself. Here is a FAQ that describes how.
http://parkerguns.org/pages/faq/Framesize.htm

[Don Somers]

i have contacted Dave and he is confident he has all the missing parts I need. Thanks for the information

[Dean Romig]

There were scant few Parkers made with the top rib engraved "Manufactured For" and the owner's name.





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[Paweł Janusz]

I can renew it to your preferred configuration or restore to factory configuration, your choice, shooting it is for you to find out about barrels limitations. I'm sure it's possible just you have to know what loads are safe for it.

[Don Somers]

Here are some pic's of the gun 51561

51562

51563 any feed back would be welcomed
Dave Fjelline is working to locate the missing parts (what a nice guy, I enjoy just talking to him he's got some great stories) and keeps me updated on any new info on the gun itself.

[Don Somers]

I have posted some pic's at the end of the therad

[Eric Eis]

I have never seen a trigger guard like that..........before

[Rick Losey]

I have never seen a trigger guard like that..........before

no - looks rather Germanic

[Paweł Janusz]

what do you want to do with it?

[todd allen]

Looks like a very worthwhile project, especially with the family connection.
I Know that there are others here with a ton more expertise than me, but IMO, I would salvage the metal, and restock back to the traditional Parker style of the day. I wouldn't want to condemn the trigger guard as incorrect out of hand, but would examine it carefully for signs of modifications. There's likely to be some evidence of welding/modification in the hidden areas on the backside.

[Dean Romig]

That stock is in the traditional style of the day. The only thing I would question is the strange trigger guard strap..... Get a Research Letter on that gun - it may just hav been ordered that way or returned for that modification.


A stock of mine which is also a gun of that particular era. Note the similarity in the nose of the comb.

Next is a wonderful example of what Parker Bros. would do to a trigger guard strap upon request.


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[Robin Lewis]

Did Parker Pages have a write-up on that gun or am I remembering Double Gun Journal?

[Dean Romig]

The AAHE trap gun Robin?





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[Robin Lewis]

Yes, I believe it was John's grandfather's gun.

[Dean Romig]

Right - I don't recall a Parker Pages article specifically on that gun but I believe there was a DGJ article on it. I do remember John posted the history and provenance, extensive pictures of the gun, his great-grandfather, great-grandmother, and the dozens upon dozens of trophies taken with it, on the PGCA Forum almost ten years ago.

It would be very nice if John would do that again as a treat to the old-timers in this organization but, as well, for the hundreds of new members who have never seen it up close and personal. :clap:





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[Frank Cronin]

It would be very nice if John would do that again as a treat to the old-timers in this organization but, as well, for the hundreds of new members who have never seen it up close and personal. :clap:.

Or they can see it up close in person if they go to the New Years Day shoot at Major Waldron's.

Amazing gun.

[Dean Romig]

If John comes.





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[calvin humburg]

That is a nice gun I would like to see all the engraving. It's a pin lifter no? Beautiful feather stock. ch

[Paweł Janusz]

sky is the limit

[Brian Dudley]

The stock is original. The guard is VERY interesting. Are you able to post some additional photos focusing on just that?

[Dean Romig]

The sculpting of the frame forward of the lock plates is unusual - I've not seen one like that before.





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[Paweł Janusz]

how are the bores of bbl?

[Brian Dudley]

The sculpting of the frame forward of the lock plates is unusual - I've not seen one like that before.





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Indid
Not notice that at first Dean. Yes. Usually that line hugs the lock plate a lot more. Typically by no more than roughly 1/4".

[Don Somers]

I'll post more pic's when I get the parts back, in the mean time I'm posting pic's of the trigger guard in a reply to Dean Roming

[Don Somers]

Sorry I don't have a camera that shows good detail but here are some pic's of the trigger guard. It looks like the guard was cut then the scroll was then welded to the guard, very nicely done and feels very natural when you shoulder the gun.51666

51667

51668

[Paweł Janusz]

little customization for customers comfort

[Brian Dudley]

A little hard to tell, but that guard COULD be original. The engraving on the front and back certainly is. And there is no sign of the front screw hole being filled.

Interesting.
If they wanted a pistol grip, they should have ordered one.

[Dean Romig]

I would say it is original and special order. I'd sure like to see the letter on that gun.






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[Dave Suponski]

Some years ago I owned a early four digit lifter that I bought from Ron Kirby and it had the same trigger guard bow. It was factory....

[Bill Murphy]

Dave, send us a copy of the letter on that gun, and maybe pictures. Thanks.

[Brian Dudley]

Bill always assumes that everyone has a letter for every gun they have owned.

Wouldnt that be nice.

[Dave Suponski]

Bill, I no longer own the gun and the letter. This gun had been redone by George Flaim many years ago and it was right as rain.

[Paweł Janusz]

how is bore?

[Don Somers]

Dave, did your gun have the marking for frame size or the s/n on every part?
Mine only has the s/n on the under side of both bbl's, no other markings, although there is F,CB stamped on the stock face near the tang groove.

[Dave Suponski]

No as I recall it didn't

[Don Somers]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but further research leads me to believe the numbers on the underside of the BBL's next to the Birmingham Proof House hallmark are the BBL makers I'D not a S/N. I have also found out that the locks are " Stoks Patent" as there are no other markings on any of the gun components, Could it be that this gun was manufactured using surplus musket parts? which makes the date on the BBL rib of 1869 more logical

[Don Somers]

here are some more pic's, the numbers next to the proof house hallmark are the only ones anywhere on any parts, note the letter "G" in the 2nd. pic.
I'll post pic's of the action when I get it back from Dave52092

52093

52094

52095

52096

52097

52098

52099

52100

[Don Somers]

some how my first pic didn't show-up so here it is52101

[Dean Romig]

Those look like Birmingham stamps - Rick Losey will know for sure.

First of those stamps I've seen on Parker barrels. They are definitely Laminated of some sort.

You Sir, have an extremely unusual Parker.






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[Rick Losey]

Dean is correct

Provisional Birmingham proof- remarkably clear set of marks

[Paweł Janusz]

look like a good restoration candidate

[Don Somers]

Dean is correct

Provisional Birmingham proof- remarkably clear set of marks
Hi Rick: On another site (Damascus Knowledge) there was a pic of a set of bbl's showing the Birmingham proof hallmark with numbers next to it and they implied that the numbers are the bbl makers ID No. If that is true then the only info I have on the gun is the manufacture date on the bbl rib 1869. do you think that could be correct

[Rick Losey]

i have seen many numbers and letters on Birmingham guns- i have never seen a list that details them -

this is one of mine- i guess TENT is a barrel maker - can't prove it

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=588&pictureid=6867

on this Greener - i have yet to figure out the marks on the under ribs
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=720&pictureid=8413

i have a feeling that barrel makers marks are most often initials not nnumbers

can't prove it - but based on guns and British reels, makers and inspectors are hard to pin down

[Don Somers]

without any s/n numbers on any components and the non-typical parts for my gun i.e.: the oversized firing pin retainers (possibly made from surplus musket nipples), the oversized trip,the use of Stoaks locks and the frame size being off measurement. so I guess other than the 7735 next to the hallmark its anyones guess as to the actual date of manufacture, which leads me to believe the the "Manufactured For M. Hoag Seneca Falls N.Y. 1869" engraved on the rib may possibly be correct.
I'm disappointed that the missing parts could not be located but I'll keep trying if anyone has any suggestions please let me know. Dave Fejlline is sending the action back today, I'll post pic's when I get it
Thanks for all the help form the members that followed this thread

[Don Somers]

I finally got around to reassembling the gun after getting the action back from Dave It now has two period correct hammers but still missing the finger pad for the lifter the "tirp" and firing pin retainers, I guess some guns are destined to be wall hangers however, I'm still not finished looking for these parts. Maybe some day there will be pic's of a complete gun posted. Thanks to all who replied to this post. :bigbye:: without any s/n numbers on any components and the non-typical parts for my gun i.e.: the oversized firing pin retainers (possibly made from surplus musket nipples), the oversized trip,the use of Stoaks locks and the frame size being off measurement. so I guess other than the 7735 next to the hallmark its anyones guess as to the actual date of manufacture, which leads me to believe the the "Manufactured For M. Hoag Seneca Falls N.Y. 1869" engraved on the rib may possibly be correct.
I'm disappointed that the missing parts could not be located but I'll keep trying if anyone has any suggestions please let me know. Dave Fejlline is sending the action back today, I'll post pic's when I get it
Thanks for all the help form the members that followed this thread

[Brian Dudley]

I have some of the old style lifter buttons. Get in touch with me if you want.