Parker Grade 2 short 10 gauge (maybe dollar grade?) in amazing condition.

[Brian Hornacek]

I was VERY lucky to acquire 13694 10 gauge grade 2 or similar $$ grade, 2 5/8" short 10 chamber with Parker made 30" laminate barrels on a #2 frame. The gun is in exceptional condition with the only real issue being buggered up hammer screws.

I had no idea about Parker laminated barrels but happened to be talking to Dean Romig on another topic and I described a gun I looked at recently with very vivid herringbone pattern. When I gave him the serial number he said I needed to look for the P stamp on the flat and he surmised it might be those barrels. When I returned for the purchase Dean's prediction was spot on. I am privileged to have found this gun for my collection..

Thank you Dean Romig!!

[Dean Romig]

Brian, you have probably already discovered there is no information on that number in the Serialization book but there are surviving factory records to support a Research Letter.

That is a beautiful old gun with some unusual features and in super nice condition!

I know you'll take good care of it for me...;)







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[Brian Dudley]

An interesting gun in that it is at the beginning of a transition period. Slightly Earlier grade 2 guns would have sculpted bolsters and less engraving. This gun is a lifter, but it has the 1pc large plunger firing pins, instead of the offset pins and bushings. And it has the deely forend latch. But, it still has the standard shorter lifter water table.

The condition of the gun overall is excellent. But i dont need to tell you that.
The only observation is the incorrectly re-cut checkering on the Forend. Too bad.

[Dean Romig]

Brian, I respectfully disagree with your opinion of the forend checkering.
The gun was produced before standard features were assigned to guns of a grade.
It is my opinion that those extra checkered triangle patches are original to the gun. I've never seen them before but considering the condition of the entire gun and the rest of the checkering, I'm betting that is original checkering.

The subject gun 13694 was produced in 1878 - the same year that King's Deely & Edge patented forend latch system was introduced. It is very possible that this gun's forend originally had the earlier keyed forend latching system and it was replaced by the new Deeley style and the holes in the wood for the key fittings had been plugged and checkered to disguise the work.
Notice the center diamond point is smaller/closer to the centerline of the forend which allowed the installation of the earlier keyed system.

Now take a look at an earlier grade 2 'dollar' equivalent gun I've posted here which has the same checkering with the smaller center diamond allowing space for the keyed system.

Remember, 'never say never when discussing Parkers.'

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[David Holes]

I am confused with the firing pins, I have 23154, laminated. p marked barrels, grade 2 with off set pins. my number is way later. Could have these been upgrades after production? This is the first set of later pins on a early gun that I have seen.

[Dean Romig]

Absolutely David. I'm nearly certain that is what happened with this gun. I'll even guess the forend latching system was updated at the same time. I wonder if there is information in the PGCA records that would support this.






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[Brian Hornacek]

I am looking forward to the letter on this gun, yes there are records thank goodness!!

[Brian Dudley]

Well then we can just agree to disagree i suppose Dean.
As i am a firm believer that the factory would never turn out checkering work and layout as poor as that.
The poor spacing, over-runs and faint evidence of original border around the main section of the pattern is at least proof positive of a recut.

[Richard Flanders]

I'm wondering if the screws are buggered because the hammers aren't tight on the shafts and the screws had to be constantly tightened. I have a Remington hammer gun that has that issue. One hammer screw comes loose every 10shots or so. I have a plan for a remedy but haven't gotten to it yet.

[chris dawe]

Guys as to the checkering ,and i'll only be able to 100% confirm this when I see it in hand ...I feel I can confidently see the remains of a mullered border in the diamonds in question when I expand the photo,I agree a re-cut may have been done ....but if just for a moment if you imagine the lines properly redone and the borders intersecting as I think the pic shows, it would be Parker quality .

Just my opinion,I spend only a little time each day shagging around with shotguns the rest of my time is spent chasing birds over marsh and barren - never worked there or nothing like that

[Dean Romig]

My last post on the subject - There appears to be an oval of lighter colored wood in the checkering there in that added triangle, suggesting an inlaid patch of wood. If so, this would support my theory of the factory change of forend latching systems.





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[Mark Landskov]

I once owned a 10 gauge Grade 2 gun with sculpted bolsters, offset firing pins, keyed/wedged forend, and 'P' marked Laminated barrels. It was in the 15000 serial number range, made in 1879.

[Dean Romig]

The P marked barrels were only made, according to C.A. King, in 1877, '78, and '79.

I have 1879 and 1880 guns with them.




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[Gary Carmichael Sr]

It is a nice gun, You should be proud to own it! after all it is a Parker hammer gun! and it will turn heads when you carry it, Gary

[William Shirah]

She's a real beauty...I'm envious!

[Jay Oliver]

That is a very nice gun Brian! I am not sure if you reload or not? I bought a short, short 10 this past spring as well and was able to get 2 5/8" 10 gauge low pressure shells from RST. They are are not listed on their website but the will make them. One day(hopefully soon) I'll get set up for reloading, but for now RST keeps me shooting. I'd also recommend Track of the Wolf's brass shells, but that gun may be a bit too pretty for blackpowder...

[Brian Hornacek]

I am going to have to get set up for 10 gauge soon until then I will have to rely on our friends at RST.

[calvin humburg]

That is one nice gun! As for the checkering it's a none issue, to say it's not parker, bold. Did I say that is one cool gun.

[Dean Romig]

Brian, have you received your research letter yet?
If yes, can you share it with us?





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[Brian Hornacek]

Sorry I have been busy hunting!! Yes I know an ugly black gun, picture taken on the St Lawrence River north of Quebec City.

New frame in 1902.

[Dean Romig]

The last entry in the letter explains the late plunger design, the frame having been replaced, but does the replacement frame still have the right angle at the water table and standing breech, or does it have the later design with the radius at that location? We might presume that tha frame had cracked at that location as was relatively common on the early lifter frames. (Stay tuned for the Winter Issue of Parker Pages for "The Lazarus Gun" - story of same situation.) but we still don't know how and when the forend latching system was replaced with the later style.

Thanks Brian





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[Brian Hornacek]

Yes Dean I would guess the original frame had the right angle frame, the new frame has the radius.

Looking forward to the article!

[Brian Dudley]

Put on new frame? Thats a new one.

[Dean Romig]

My guess is that it was done from time to time in the case of a cracked right angle frame.
Maybe Chuck has seen other examples of this...?






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[Brian Dudley]

I still do not know if the forend latch was upgraded or not.
Other than the checkered areas on the forend, what is the evidence?

There is no sign, that i see, of the retaining screw hole on the inside of the forend that kept the key in.

[Dean Romig]

Maybe Brian Hornacek could show us better pictures of the checkered triangles in different lighting that might better show what I believe are oval wood plugs under the checkering where the keyed latchplates might have been.

Again, just one man's opinion - better pictures might prove one way or the other.






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[Brian Dudley]

Removing the iron from the wood can also show if the inletting is still present from the key.

[Dean Romig]

There is no sign, that i see, of the retaining screw hole on the inside of the forend that kept the key in.


Under max magnification I think I see a wood plug in that location. Stained dark and without the continuation of the grain of the forend wood.

See my key-latched forend for exactly where to look for evidence of a plug.



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[Brian Hornacek]

Good evening Parker friends. I am bringing up this thread since the mystery of the release latch conversion and checkering has been solved.

I sent the wood to Chris Dawe to re-cut the checkering as the original borders were still present but very faint. Dean Romig mentioned he believed the original slide wedge style forearm release had been converted to the newer release style and the checkering was adapted to cover up the repairs. He was correct, you can make out the wood inserts and also the wedge keeper screw hole being plugged. Here are the pictures showing another interesting Parker factory repair/change.

[Brian Dudley]

Thanks for sharing Brian.

I would have liked to see the factory do something a little more pleasing to the eye. But, what can you do. I have seen other examples with the pattern was converted to one big diamond to cover those patches.

[chris dawe]

That forend was a sonova $%#^& to recut ...the previous attempt did not leave much to work with ...but the original border lines were unmistakeable in the sunlight ....when it was first done I imagine it wasn't too bad really .

[Dean Romig]

You've got to be kidding!?!

"First time" nothin'! You did a great job Chris!





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[Austin J Hawthorne Jr.]

Looking at the pictures at the beginning of this post, it appears to me that this gun still has the right angle frame. Check out the barrel flats where they meet the standing breach

[Richard Flanders]

If you download and blow up the last photo it looks radiused.

[Austin J Hawthorne Jr.]

Brian,
Could you resolve the question of whether or not the frame has a radius or right angle. The barrel flats sure look like they are right angled to me.

[Austin J Hawthorne Jr.]

Ooopps,
He already has. Maybe I should read the whole post before making any comments.

[calvin humburg]

I think it looks very nice.