engravers were not hunters

[Rick Losey]

how else can you explain the incongruous combinations of game and guns

just picked up a project Elsie -- well done birds, a grouse on one side, a brace of woodcock on the other

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=719&pictureid=8399

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=719&pictureid=8398

I like the birds- BUT they are on a 32 inch barreled 8 1/2 pound 12 gauge :shock: Not my idea of a gun to drag up an Appalachian hillside nor through an alder swamp


I have a nearly 10 pound 10 gauge grade 2 Parker hammer gun with a woodcock on the floor plate, THATS not going to happen :rotf:

i know we have seen several nice Parkers with stags on them


My guess is they had patterns and unless there were comments on the order - the engraver picked what suited his whimsy for the day

how about your odd couples?

[Dave Noreen]

The pattern was the pattern, as in my example of Ithaca NID No. 3s. You got the same birds whether it was a Magnum-Ten --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Ithaca%20and%20Lefever/500168%2008%20left%20close%20reduced_zpsa7xhx6pl.j pg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Ithaca%20and%20Lefever/500168%2004%20right%20close%20reduced_zpsk3fl2q3o. jpg

or a 28-gauge --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Ithaca%20and%20Lefever/458473%2001_zpsxnxgpe5i.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Ithaca%20and%20Lefever/458473%2002_zpsrjykqnjm.jpg

The same usually with the No. 2, here a 28-gauge and a Super-Ten --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Ithaca%20and%20Lefever/No.%202%20NIDs%2002_zpsoijbfoe9.jpg

I guess if you knew somebody or made a special request you could get something else. Here from the upcoming Julia Auction is a very late Magnum-Ten No. 2 that has the duck normally seen on No. 4s on its left side --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Ithaca%20and%20Lefever/500979%20No.%202%20Magnum-Ten%20duck%20on%20left%20side_zpsnvzrmzil.jpg

Baker Gun Co. had a different take on their engraving. The actual text from a 1900 issue of The Baker Gunner -- "We do not guarantee that every "B"( or "A") grade gun will be engraved from just the same design, but endeavor to have about the same amount of engraving on each. On receiving an order from a customer we try to select first, one which will fill the specifications as to gauge, weight, length of barrels, drop and length of stock, and then conform to customer's ideas as to engraving , as nearly as possible from guns we may have in stock, but always consider engraving of secondary importance. You may receive a "B" (or "A") with a different design of border, or a duck or a dog in place of the two quail or a dog pointing game, we cannot tell as it is our aim to give a variety of designs."

[Rick Losey]

The pattern was the pattern,



Baker Gun Co. had a different take on their engraving. The actual text from a 1900 issue of The Baker Gunner -- "We do not guarantee that every "B"( or "A") grade gun will be engraved from just the same design, but endeavor to have about the same amount of engraving on each. On receiving an order from a customer we try to select first, one which will fill the specifications as to gauge, weight, length of barrels, drop and length of stock, and then conform to customer's ideas as to engraving , as nearly as possible from guns we may have in stock, but always consider engraving of secondary importance. You may receive a "B" (or "A") with a different design of border, or a duck or a dog in place of the two quail or a dog pointing game, we cannot tell as it is our aim to give a variety of designs."

thanks

so Ithaca held to a standard pattern per grade-

Baker's process seems to make sense - but could still end up with a mismatch to the gun's gauge and specs

Fox I think was pretty standard per grade

it seems Parker and Smith (on early guns) varied the actual engraving a lot more- although following the "same amount" concept

[wayne goerres]

Was there ever a Parker made with a squirrel engraved on it.

[James Brown]

Yes. Nov. 23, 2013, thread title, what's on your plate, page three, Ray masciarella posted pic of squirrel.

[wayne goerres]

Thank you

[Dean Romig]

Some engravers didn't even have a good grasp on the anatomy of simple dog....

Double click on this one to enlarge.

.

[Phil Yearout]

Maybe the guy wanted to pay homage to his amputee dog :).

[Mark Garrett]

He looks pissed off , maybe the hunter missed ??

[Dave Noreen]

The leg is there, just looks shriveled. Maybe Mom took thalidimide during her pregnancy!!

[Hal Sheets]

I count 4, its held up on the far side. As on point!

[Dean Romig]

No, enlarge it... It is on the near side but a dog's anatomy will not allow it to bend as the engraver has depicted.





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[Rick Losey]

that may explain the snarl

[John Campbell]

In light of today's mainstream "engraving" we may be counting a few too many angels on the head of this pin. The current issue of a popular sporting magazine reminds me that much of today's "engraving" is done with laser ... or laser/human clean up. Same with much of the chequering.

So... should we decry the foibles of a few real classic engravers because they may not have rendered perfect animal anatomy, or a balance of species? Or will the collectors of tomorrow justifiably rave about the precise robot-executed scenes on today's mainstream guns?

Personally, I prefer human generated art. Imperfect or not.

In fact, that's the only dimension that makes it art!

[Hal Sheets]

[QUOTE=Dean Romig;203018]No, enlarge it... It is on the near side but a dog's anatomy will not allow it to bend as the engraver has depicted.





Dean, you are correct, now I see it. Looks like it's broken down at the wrist. Still, I like that Classic low tail, just right for the time frame.

[Dean Romig]

So... should we decry the foibles of a few real classic engravers because they may not have rendered perfect animal anatomy?

Personally, I prefer human generated art. Imperfect or not.

In fact, that's the only dimension that makes it art!


Correctly depicted anatomy is art. Incorrectly depicted anatomy is the mark of a rookie or apprentice who should never have been allowed to represent the gunmaker with his weakness.

I much prefer perfection.

Just my HO.






.

[George Lang]

I have a Prussian Sauer that has highly detailed and realistic engraved dogs. The detail is such that you can see all the feathering on the setter, especially under a 2x loupe. I hope the attached picture can be enlarged. George

[Rick Losey]

the Germans tended to good game scene engraving

the point was that so often the engraving is not a match for the use of the gun.

but i still get a kick out of Dean's dog. My Dad painted as a hobby and was pretty good (i have one of my first retriever on the wall in the living room)- but he did one of a plains warrior on a war pony and had it hung in a show before he noticed the extra knee on the raised front leg :rotf:

[James J. Roberts]

I like Mr. Lang's Prussian Sauer with realistic hunting dogs and well done English scrolls,anatomy composition and perspective is what I encourage students you must learn how to draw take art class's that's the only way to be a successful engraver. Engravers in Europe & England go through a four year apprenticeship starting with drawing then it on to practice plates and maybe gun parts and after graduating working for a gun maker. J.J.