Primer pockets

[Austin J Hawthorne Jr.]

Has anyone experienced primer pocket expansion from shells loaded to higher than normal pressures? I was given a few hundred ( once fired empties ? ), and have found that I can push my Federal 209's into the primer pocket with just finger pressure, and some of them can actually be taken out again with my fingernail. I've also noticed that some of these empties have pierced primers, but look new in all other aspects.

[Mark Garrett]

What brand hull ?

[Rick Losey]

or were they once reloaded with a larger primer - Fiocchi primers are a bit larger than the normal 209

so - their hulls have a larger pocket and i would expect reloading with their primers would stretch the pocket

not sure about the other (i use WW209 except for Fiocchi hulls)- but I would expect size variations between brands are not rare

[Scot Cardillo]

European shotgun primers are slightly tapered.

Winchester primers have a reduced diameter straight section at the lead which acts as a lead-in and positions the primer in a readied (perpendicular) position prior to the action to press the primer into the pocket. This requires a little more attention to detail relative to the assembly sequence in that the act of seating (pressing) should be done in as straight up & down action as is possible.

The European design is one that allows the pressing action to be slightly off center and is reliant upon the taper to align the primer properly once seated.

Just two different ways to skin the cat that results in deformation of a primer pocket making interchangability a not so feasible proposition.
_

This ignores the possibility of blowback and slightly large chambers.

[Scot Cardillo]

..oops, just noticed that you cited Federal 209's - it's likely they resemble Winchester but I can't say with certainty.

[John Campbell]

Federal 209s run just a bit "fatter" than Winchester. If you really want to fit a loose primer pocket, try Cheddite primers. They're so oversize I won't use them. Then again, they are made in France...

[Paul Harm]

Sorry, Cheddite 209 primers are the same as Win, Fed, Rem. A Fiocchi, Rio and some Cheddite primers are .004 larger in diameter. I believe the foreign hulls may be larger from this ad from BPI, but not sure.
Universal Primer Pocket Conditioner 10ga - .410
•The only primer pocket conditioner that fits all gauges
•Resizes loose primer pockets
•Great for Fiocchi, Rio & Cheddite hulls
•Saves money by fixing hulls
•Made in USA

[John Campbell]

I no doubt have a brick of Cheddites that are at least .004 oversize...

[Richard Flanders]

I reload Rio hulls and you definitely have to use the larger European primers as US primers just about fall out. The most interesting primer pocket issue I've encountered was trying to use Winchester primers in Rem STS hulls. When they form the brass and plastic together it creates a sort of diaphragm of plastic at the end of the primer hole. The Remington primers have a rounded nose that allows them to fit just fine; Winchesters with their squarish nose get pushed back out a bit. Took a while to figure that one out. You have to take a reamer and remove the offending plastic from each hull if you want to use Win primers.

[Paul Harm]

I've used probably more than 50,000 Cheddites with the occasional Win. primer and have never had a problem. Just my experience changing from Cheddite to Win. Just measured both of them and they were the same - .244 . Richard, I only found that problem with Rem STS 28ga shells. I used a number drill, forget now which one it was. With the STS 12ga hulls I haven't ever had that problem - maybe I'm lucky.

[Austin J Hawthorne Jr.]

Mark, and all:
The hulls are Remington Gun Club, and after de-priming them, if you set them on a flat surface they wobble ever so slightly. Not much....but enough to notice.

[Paul Harm]

Sounds like they're bowed and if so something caused it - maybe too much head space in the gun they were fired in. Just a guess. Or, what were they deprimed with ? My Mec 9000 will bow the shell. With a Grabber or 9000, if the shell doesn't drop all the way down in the deprime station they will do that.

[Gary Laudermilch]

I load 20 ga STS with Win. primers. No problem at all through 10's of thousands.

A friend of mine had difficulty with Cheddite primers in his 16 ga loaded with Green Dot. He had frequent bloopers, especially in cold weather. Switched to Win primers and the problem went away.

[Paul Harm]

Gary, think we got off track with different primers. Austin said primer pockets were big and the bottom of shells were not flat. I don't know if the press caused the bottom to bow like my 9000 will. The shells rock in the press and will fall over when it happens. And I don't know if that will also enlarge the primer pocket. I would first check the shell before and after it was deprimed for flatness. I would also deprime by hand [ a dowel and nail ] to check the primer pocket. See if it stayed tight when done by hand and when done with the press. Also, do you have this problem with other brands of shells ? Just some suggestions to start in the beginning.

[Gary Laudermilch]

Yes, these threads tend to evolve into something other than originally intended. I am guilty of contributing to it. Sorry, but the discussion was still interesting.

[William Davis]

Anything that puts a lot of pressure on the hull can cause the brass to bend or dish. Way the problem sounds and without looking at it, if dished the primer seating stem is probably too high. Or if the hull is bowed out Primer punch could be responsible, running too deep punch the primer and going to far.

I get suspicious if the press takes too much effort to operate, lot of leverage you can push hard, but should not have to.

William

[Paul Harm]

Never notice it with a 9000H. It has about 650#'s of pressure and if the shell doesn't drop down to the bottom of the collet it'll bow the base of the shell. It's happened more than once.

[Austin J Hawthorne Jr.]

Thanks for the feedback so far, but the pierced primers are what had me believing that the problem may have been high pressure.

[Paul Harm]

It's possible, but of my 10 different SxS's, only my Parker hammer gun will pierce a primer with the right barrel. I should check it against the other firing pin for sharpness/length.