Modern shotgun dimensions vs vintage

[Kirk Potter]

Why do people advertise certain vintage shotguns as having "modern shootable dimensions"

What exactly does that mean? And why have "standard" shotgun dimensions changed over the years?

Reason I ask is it seems like every vintage shotgun I shoulder fits me like a glove. My 1896 GH fits me perfect, but when I shoot either of my reproductions I'm looking down on the top of the barrel, I find it hard to hit anything with them.

[Craig Larter]

I have been shooting vintage guns so long 1 3/4 by 3 seems perfect to me especially hunting guns.

[Brian Dudley]

The standard Parker dims around the turn of the century were 14 to 14-1/4" LOP and 2.5" drop. Unless otherwise ordered.

What tells you is that more people just special ordered steep drops and short LOPs. Most consider typical drops for vintage guns to be around 3". Shooting styles have also changed over the years.

[Dave Noreen]

Time to post these again --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/AHFCA%20Inc/TheFitofShotGunStocks01.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/AHFCA%20Inc/TheFitofShotGunStocks02.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/AHFCA%20Inc/TheFitofShotGunStocks03.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/AHFCA%20Inc/TheFitofShotGunStocks04.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/AHFCA%20Inc/TheFitofShotGunStocks05.jpg

[Kirk Potter]

Time to post these again.

Cool, thanks.

[Bruce Day]

1881 Quality G top action hammer gun, 28" Damascus barrels, number 1 frame , 7 lbs 1 oz. Butt stock of 14 lop to DHBP, drop 1 1/2 and 3" . Original chokes left and right at .015" constriction. Handles and shoots just fine.

[Drew Hause]

In 1887, Parker company shooters W.S. Perry ordered a C Grade 10g with a LOP of 14 3/8" and DAC 1 1/4” X DAH 2” (Courtesy of Bill Murphy)

Fred Gilbert (1865-1928) was one of the world’s best known shooters from 1895-1915 and used a L.C. Smith to win the DuPont World’s Pigeon Shooting Championship in 1895 and the “E. C.” Inanimate Target Championship Cup in 1896. The “Fred Gilbert Specifications” were for a drop at comb of 1 3/8 inches; at the heel, 2 inches; length from trigger to heel, 14 1/4 inches; trigger to toe 14 1/2 inches; and trigger to center of butt 14 inches; with a full pistol grip and 30-inch full choke barrels.

In Feb. 1898, C.W. Budd received on consignment a Parker $400 AAH Pigeon Gun SN 87449 with 30”” Whitworth barrels F/F and 2 7/8” chambers. LOP was 14”” and DAH 2 1/4”” with a pistol grip stock and no safety. It weighed 7# 12 oz.

November 23, 1901, The Sportsmen’s Review, in an article written by “Gaucho” (Captain A.W. duBray, Parker Brothers shooting professional & traveling salesman from 1884 to 1926) entitled, “A Few Remarks on Some Celebrated Guns,” du Bray lists some prominent shooters and the type of guns they used.
(Courtesy of John Davis)
Those who made the Parker their choice were as follows:
Straight grip (S) - 17
Pistol grip (P) - 7
Half-pistol grip (1/2 P) - 3

Name….Barrel Length…..Weight…..DAC…..DAH…..LOP..….Grip
W.E. Beesom…….32”.......7lb. 15oz....1 7/16….2 1/4…...14 1/2…....S
W.L. Boyd………….32………..7/ 14……..1 1/2…...2 1/8…...14 1/8.…....S
C.W. Budd………….30………..7/ 15……..1 1/2…...2…….....14……….......POW
P.W.H. Colquitt…..30………..7/ 12……...1 1/4…...2 1/4…...14 3/4…....S
V.C. Dagan………….30…………..8………….1 3/8…...3……….14 1/2……......P
O.R. Dickey………...30…………..7/ 14……...1 5/8…....2 1/4…...14………..S
E.E. Ellis……….…....32…………..8………….1 5/8…....2 5/8…...14 1/2…....P
F.C. Etheridge….….30……….….7/ 6……….2 1/8…….3 1/8…..14…..…1/2 P
A.H. Frank…………...30…………..7/ 12……...1 1/8…….2 3/8…..14…..…….S
Fred Gilbert………...30……….....7/ 14……....1 3/8…….2……....14 1/4…....P
W.A. Hammond…….32………….7/ 15……....1 5/8…….2 3/8…..14 3/4…...S
Sam Hutchings……..32………….7/ 14…….....1 1/2…….2 1/2…..14 1/2…...S
H.J. Lyons……….…..30…………..7/ 10……….1 1/4…….1 7/8…..14 1/8….....S
Geo. S. McAlpin…………………..7/ 6………...1 1/4…….1 3/4…..14 1/2…......S
J.R. Malone……….…30…………..7/ 15……….1 1/2…….2……....15….…..........S
R.R. Merrill………....32…………..7/ 14……….1 5/8…….2 5/8…..14 5/8...1/2 P
F.S. Parmelee……...32…………..7/ 12……….1 1/2…….2……....14 1/2…......P
C.M. Powers………...32…………..7/ 15……….1 1/8…….2 1/4…..14 3/8….....S
W.C. Rawson………..32…………..7/ 15……….1 3/8…….2……….14 1/8….......S
R.S. Rhoads………….30………….7/ 15……….1 1/8…….2 1/8…...14 1/2….....P
C.E. Robbins………...32…………..7/ 11……….1 1/2…….2 1/2…...14 1/4…....P
Frank Simpson……….32………….7/ 14……….1 1/2…….2 3/8…...14 3/8…....S
Franklin Stearns…...32………….7/ 15……….1 1/2…….2 1/2…...15…...….1/2 P
E.H. Tripp………..…….30………….8…………..1 1/2……...2 5/8…...14 1/2…....S
S.A. Tucker…………...30………….7/ 14……....1 1/2……..2……….14….....…...S
Wm. Wagner………….30………….7/ 10……....1 1/4….….2 1/4…...14…….....S
Dr. F.C. Wilson……….32………….7/ 10……….1 1/2….….2 1/4…...15……......S
Leroy Woodward…….30………….7/ 13……….1 3/8……..2……….14 1/4…......P

O.R. Dickey won the 1896 GAH at Live Birds.
Gilbert, Budd, Parmelee, Powers, Tripp & Merrill were all members of the 1901 International Match Team

[Paul Harm]

A straighter stock has more of the recoil going straight back with less barrel flip up into your face. IMHO, to shoot a stock with less drop you stand with more of your weight on the front foot and that will naturally bring your head down and out. It's the way most target shooters stand. Most of my SxS's have the 3" DAH and I stand straight up, not leaning forward, and my head is in it's natural position. Two of my shotguns have the " modern " dimensions and I have to remember to lean forward with my head down and out if I want to hit anything. All those shooters listed above were target shooters so the stocks are straighter. If you're going to shoot a couple of hundred shells a day with 1 1/8oz loads you're better off with a straight stock. I do with my old guns, but only shoot 3/4oz reloads so I don't get beat up. A 1oz BP load is also ok, but BP is more of a push than a sharp hit in the face. Maybe back in the day guns were built for hunters who just slapped the gun to their face without having the time to stand just so and get everything alined just right. The English always had higher stocks because they shot driven birds toward them and want a gun that shot high for a built in lead. Same with trap shooters or live bird shooters, they want a gun that shoots a little higher. I don't think will ever know why.

[Kirk Potter]

I can actually shoot clays pretty good with them but it's just that I have to think about what I am about to do.. I don't see that translating well to hunting. My GH fits me so that its instinctive shooting, no thought required.