OO Frame 28 Gauges

[Russ Jackson]

Gentlemen , I have been pondering the OO Framed 28's today ,I know by reading in TPS the 28 Gauge was first built in the early 1900's and the earliest guns were built on the standard 20 Gauge ,O Frame ,TPS also lists the 410 Bore was built around 1923 and built on the OO Frame so we know the Frame size was started before this ! I then read through PP's in my favorite section " Parkers Found " to see what the earliest OO Frame 28 Gauge was that was listed there and to my surprise ,I couldn't find what I am looking for , the DH 28 I listed 106312 a 25" Barreled gun which I happened to own at one point was an O Frame gun so I am assuming the OO Frames may have come later , by the way I wish I still owned that gun , in a lapse of good judgement ,well you know how it works ! Has this been discussed before ,I can't seem to locate any discussion on it so would any one know the serial # or at least the earliest serial # of the OO Frame28 Gauge known to exist ?

[Dean Romig]

I have 149020 which is a 0-frame 28 made in 1908 and I have a VHE 28 on the 00-frame made in 1923.






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[greg conomos]

Keep in mind as you venture on your journey that it's not a given that they stopped using the 0 frame once the 00 was introduced. There are probably some 0 frames 28's built after some 00 frame 28's.

[Bill Murphy]

Are you sure that the first .410s were 00 frame? Maybe Chuck will look at the stock book entries to clarify that.

[Russ Jackson]

Bill; I am not sure,I wasn't there :rotf:!!!! Volume II TPS ,Page 528 ,about 1/3 of the way down the right column it states this little bit of Info. ,I would assume it is correct as to the amount of research put into the writing of TPS !

[Dean Romig]

That Fall 2015 issue of Parker Pages features an article by Bill Mullins and Charlie Herzog on the .410 prototype and includes info on the first few Parker .410's





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[Bill Murphy]

00 or 000?

[Russ Jackson]

00 or 000?

For the few that don't have TPS ,Page 528 TPS , Written Quote , " Parker introduced two other frame sizes in later years . When the 410 bore was first developed about 1924 ,it was made on the 28 Gauge ,OO ,size frame . Then soon after ,but we do not know exactly when , Parker decided to make an even smaller frame for the 410 . The OOO Frame had a dimension between hammers of 13/16 of an inch . " End Quote " , I don't know if correct but is what is written on the subject ,I would still like to know the serial # of the earliest OO Frame 28 gauge !

[Russ Jackson]

I would assume again the Prototype could have been any size frame ???? And if the OOO Frame wasn't built yet ,although TPS says they are nearly identical except for the width of the firing pins !

[Dean Romig]

I believe the .410 prototype was built on the frame or back half of a returned 00-frame 28 gauge gun. It was certainly a mongrel with Lefever .410 barrels adapted to the Parker frame. The gun currently resides in the Peterson Collection in the NRA Musehm in Fairfax VA.






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[Bill Murphy]

Maybe Chuck Bishop would look at the stock books for the entries of the first factory stock .410s. Or maybe not.

[Bill Zachow]

Dean, I was under the impression that the barrels on that proto 410 came from Ithaca. Of course, by 1924 Ithaca had owned the Lefever name and parts for some time so they may have been an Ithaca produced Lefever Nitro Express barrels.

[Larry Mason]

Hey Russ,
I have 149969 V Grade 0 frame, 28" barrels. I had a family member who only wanted me to buy it. He is a Winchester guy and this was the only Parker he owned. I told him he would have to wait a few years to raise the cash. He asked me how much did I think he would sell it for? I told him to look up Guns International, Guns America, Gun Broker etc. He laughed and said "I have an idea what they are going for." This is what I will sell it to you for...no higher...no lower! I think I sent you some pictures awhile back. My quests do not turn out like yours and others here. I have been looking for a 32" Dam barrel for a 12 Gauge 1 !/2 Frame that fits a C or B or one of my Ds. I need it for a little more punch for a goose gun. There are a few other small guns I am looking for. Now that I am mending from my back surgery, and listen to the Docs and not me. I should be able to going to shows and follow some leads.

[Dave Noreen]

Ithaca produced Lefever Nitro Express barrels.

The Ithaca produced Lefever shotgun was the Nitro Special --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Ithaca%20and%20Lefever/1922%20Lefever%20Nitro%20Special%20Flyer_zpsdjrlsk pj.jpg

Nitro Express was a Remington shotgun shell --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Rem-UMC/Nitro%20Express%2012-gauge%204CH_zpsm02t7f2l.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Rem-UMC/Nitro%20Express%2012-gauge%206CH_zpsjmhl4w2x.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Rem-UMC/Nitro%20Express%2012-gauge%204C%20one-piece_zps2p0pib8o.jpg

[Dean Romig]

Dean, I was under the impression that the barrels on that proto 410 came from Ithaca. Of course, by 1924 Ithaca had owned the Lefever name and parts for some time so they may have been an Ithaca produced Lefever Nitro Express barrels.


Bill, that is very likely to be the case.





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[Russ Jackson]

Not to be redundant but ,,, I will ask again ,does anyone know the earliest OO Frame Parker 28 Gauge ??? :corn:

[Dean Romig]

The authors of The Parker Story indicate that the 00-frame and the 1 1/2-frame were introduced around 1900. They say that a 1 1/2-frame built in 1898 is known but make no reference to the earliest known 00-frame, only that the earliest 28 gauge guns were built on the 0-frame. We know of a lot of 0-frame 28 gauge guns made up to the early 'teens and there is probably a significant number of 0-frame 28 gauge guns made after the introduction of the 00-frame.

So guys, please - what is the date of manufacture or the serial number of your early 28 gauge gun on the 00-frame? Prior to 1920 would probably be good limit because we know the 00-frame was in use in 1920 by the dimension charts on page 528 of TPS.





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[Russ Jackson]

Thanks for the reply Dean , the last part of your post is what I am wondering , Mine " Serial # 225241 " is too late of gun to be considered for the earliest , I am Sure !

[Daryl Corona]

Both of mine were built in the 20's, 198xxx 1922, 216xxx 1926. Both OO frames. I know they are not what you are looking for but maybe they can be a start for you data base.:bigbye:

[Dean Romig]

I have 211216 which is also too late.






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[charlie cleveland]

i just wish i had a 28 ga no to throw at ya...charlie

[Alfred Greeson]

I assume the prototype 410 was the gun featured in the Autumn 2015 issue of Parker pages. The article said "He used a 28 gauge , 00 size frame and milled it out to a 000 frame" and like you said he used .410 Lefever barrels from Ithaca and "he found some A-1 Special grade wood that had been taken from a 28 gauge gun" Like you said, a real mongrel. Wouldn't it have been interesting to work in that shop in those days and see how things developed?