Nash Buckingham's Last Case of Lubaloy #4s

[Bill Murphy]

This is slightly off topic, but since Nash also shot Parkers, I am posting this in the most read forum rather than in the memorabilia or other guns forum. I will have pictures of Nash's last case of Super-X Lubaloy #4s at the Fox display tables or at the Bo Whoop tent at the Northeast Shoot at Hausemann's tomorrow afternoon and Saturday, maybe Sunday. The pictures include all sides of the case including the Western factory mailing address for Henry Bartholomew, "Marse Henry", as well as the Western factory date stamp of 11-48, the month before Bo Whoop was lost. For those who cannot see the pictures at the Northeast Shoot, Linda will post them on the Fox Collectors forum when I get back from the shoot. At the time the pictures were taken, the sealed case had not been opened, so the shell boxes themselves are not shown in the pictures. Bill Murphy

[David Borrowman]

The last Ducks Unlimited magazine had an article about Bo Whoop's discovery and an article about bringing classic doubles back into the duck marsh. The gun they used for the photo was a Parker.

[James T. Kucaba]

This is slightly off topic, but since Nash also shot Parkers, I am posting this in the most read forum rather than in the memorabilia or other guns forum. I will have pictures of Nash's last case of Super-X Lubaloy #4s at the Fox display tables or at the Bo Whoop tent at the Northeast Shoot at Hausemann's tomorrow afternoon and Saturday, maybe Sunday. The pictures include all sides of the case including the Western factory mailing address for Henry Bartholomew, "Marse Henry", as well as the Western factory date stamp of 11-48, the month before Bo Whoop was lost. For those who cannot see the pictures at the Northeast Shoot, Linda will post them on the Fox Collectors forum when I get back from the shoot. At the time the pictures were taken, the sealed case had not been opened, so the shell boxes themselves are not shown in the pictures. Bill Murphy

Bill ... I don't think anyone will complain if you post the pictures here as well.

Jim Kucaba ... AriZOOna Cactus Patch ... Email: JimKucaba@aol.com

[Bill Murphy]

Jim, they will get posted here also. Destry will get his look, finally. The gentleman who possessed the shells at the Southern Side by Side, a good friend for many years, has disposed of all loose shells and loose boxes and cannot provide any pictures of those items. Sorry. A thread on the Fox Collectors website forum titled "Updated, Southern Side by Side" contains a synopsis of the discovery of this incredibly rare and historic case of shells at the Southern. It is worth a read.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I found out you were the buyer shortly after your cryptic PM. I wish you'd have just told me, it would have saved me several long distance phone calls.....

DLH

[Bill Murphy]

Destry, cryptic would be a poor choice of words in describing the PM where I did not identify the buyer of the shells. I still choose not to identify the buyer but you know you would be number one on the list if I had anything to do with it. I actually would prefer to be number one if the case is broken up, but you could be number two. Although I may not have control of the case of shells, I tried my darndest to obtain any extra shells or boxes of shells that the seller may have had. He, as you probably know, had none. I would kill for a box of those shells to display with my "stuff". Wow. "This is a box of Nash Buckingham's Lubaloy." Not quite "This is one of Nash Buckingham's shotguns." Not even close.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I know who the buyer is, you can knock off the cryptic act.

[Bill Murphy]

I don't care how cocky you want to be, I still like you and you're still at the top of the list, after me. I bet I've been looking for a box of 1 3/8 ounce #4 Lubaloy as long or longer than you have.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I'm not after them.

I've owned a box but let it go to a friend, I'll find another.

DLH

[Dave Noreen]

A case of shells shipped to Marse Henry in 1948. How, do those equate to being Nash's shells? Nash was gone from the DC area by then and back shooting along Ole Miss.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

They don't, I didn't even want to start that discussion. They belonged to a friend of Buckingham's, that's the only connection.

DLH

[Kevin McCormack]

I was the guy who found the "secret gate" to 'Marse' Henry Bartholemew estate in Southern MD while cruising around aimlessly in a funk after driving to a firehouse gunshow and finding nothing. My buddy who lived across the river from his estate immediately nicknamed me "Marse" and I have jealously maintained it ever since. I know who the buyer in question was, who shot up the first of the two cases, and the guy who has the great picture album of the whole shebang, so I'm not interested in any of the stuff. When the time is right to divulge the history, provenance, and current location of the third "Bo Whoop", I will weigh in.

[Bill Murphy]

And the fourth Invincible.

[Kevin McCormack]

I know where part of it is, Bill.

[Mark Ouellette]

Bill and Kevin,

Last week I saw a very important part of what was to be Invincible #4...

Respectfully,
Mark

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Kevin,

I know where that gun is too.

Mark,

I've seen that part.


All,

I ain't got nothing good but I know where a bunch of good stuff is apparently.

[Mark Ouellette]

Destry,

Yes, we've made the journey to the Parker Mecca... Very good!

Mark

[Bill Murphy]

I don't want to address the provenance of the case of Bartholomew shells, but I will address the fact that Nash had no checkbook to write a check to John Olin for a case of shells for the ill fated 1948 duck season. Henry Bartholomew is known as Nash's benefactor and his Potomac River hunting partner. Henry bought guns and hunts for Nash when Nash was in need of either. I'm sure he bought the ammunition too. The fact that the last stash of 1 3/8 ounce Lubaloy #4 was not used would indicate to me that Marse Henry was not as fond of this load as Nash was. This case of Super-X was shipped the same month that Nash lost Bo Whoop. I have a fairly simple answer to the question about why the shells were not used by Marse Henry. The simple answer is that the shells did not belong to him, they were Nash's. It really doesn't matter, because they will not be hawked at Bo Whoop prices. They will be sold at a reasonable price to friends who appreciate waterfowl and shotgun history. My most vocal critic is still number one on the list.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Bill,

Should I start holding my breath for a price on a box of those shells? I'll expect a PM real soon.

DLH

[Will Gurton]

I cannot believe that these were that last P374L's that Nash owned.

Dr. William Andrews, "Chubby", would always talk with great fondness of how in the years that he and Nash hunted together, as a gesture of gratitude Nash would give "Chubby" two boxes of Lubaloys at the begining of each trip to kind of offset travel expenses, since Nash neither owned a vehicle or drove.

"Chubby" would always laugh and say that he also knew Nash never bought a shell. John Olin would always make sure he had plenty.

Will

[Tom Kidd]

I thought you guys might enjoy these photographs, seems like they haven't yet been posted. Didn't realize that I had any of the cases left, but found this one when cleaning up for some fix-up construction. I have also included a few shots of the actual shells that came from these cases. I hope I have just enough left to last me for my remaining turkey hunting days. They are being digested in one of Buckingham's big Beckers and do indeed do a good job on turkeys. A 19 1/2 pounder is the best to date. Too bad, I have shot up, given away, or sold most of what I had over the years. I think the case that sold recently was from the stash that I had the privilege to have purchased from Bart Cox. Yes, John Olin did send Nash any and all shells that he needed, gratis, many through Mr. Highsmith. Enjoy

[Bill Davis]

Hi Tom--great to hear from you! And great pictures! Hank P. and I were talking about you last week while in Vegas.--All good stuff. Hope you are well. Bill D.

[Bill Murphy]

Tom, did you visit the Bartholomew farm when you bought the guns or did Bart Cox ship them to you? When Bart sent me the sale list, I should have paid him a visit instead of crying over spilt milk. Bill Murphy

[CraigThompson]

I am curiouse about a good many things and Nash's Burt Becker guns have always been one of them . Although I've not kept up with it the last 15-20 years .

Anyway I assume the #2 Becker Magnum and Nash's Becker 12 gauge quail gun are still known to exist .

I am curiouse has by chance BoWhoop been uncovered ?

I seem to remmember reading something semi recently that gave me the idea that someone was claiming to have found /uncovered it ?

[Robin Lewis]

Found..... read all about it.....
http://www.ducks.org/news-media/news/6922/lost-and-found-buckinghams-beloved-bo-whoop-sells-for-175000

[Christopher Lien]

I remember reading a while ago there was a connection between Nash Buckingham and Missouri Senator Harry Hawes... If I remember correctly Harry had some rather nice Fox/Becker doubles and there may have been some gun dealing between Nash and Harry over the years... Anyone know if Nash and Harry Hawes spent any time hunting together?...


Best, CSL
________________________________

[Bill Murphy]

Patrick, I hunted at a club on the Potomac River a couple of years ago, and, as I am known to do, started leafing through the log book. I found that Harry Hawes had shot there some time back. I got to thinking about the location of the club, which had been changed "back when". The club where I was shooting is on an island across the river from the Bartholomew farm. I'm not sure about the exact locations of the clubs, but I couldn't miss the Senator Hawes notation in the sign in book.

[Tom Kidd]

Bill, Yes I did visit, in fact many times as Bart and Hanna and Carol and I became fast friends with our mutual interests in Nash/Becker stuff and antique cars.

Christopher, I just posted some dog photos and hunting BS, and was shooting one of Senator Hawes' smallbore Beckers today. Wow, how about that, I get home and here is a discussion about Senator Hawes and his guns. Seems like something is haunted, I guess I had better get back to bed!

[Christopher Lien]

Murph,
The Potomac River Hunt Club log book sounds like a great read, and I'll bet there were probably some other well known historical gunners listed among it's pages...

Tom, It's good to know one of Senator Hawes' smallbore Beckers is still spending some time in the field, and your sidekick lab "Ice" sure looks to be having a fun hunt, great photos!... I have an interesting old first edition shooting book I found several years ago from the personal library of Harry B. Hawes that was signed to him by the author in 1933, and if I remember correctly 1933 was also about the same time Harry took delivery of a small bore Fox/Becker gun... Not sure if any of the Fox guys collect "Harry B. Hawes" gunning related items, but thought you might find this interesting... Image below shows a small label on the inside cover of the book mentioned above...

Best, Chris ~ CSL
__________________________

http://www.webpak.net/~cslien/1HawesBookLabel.jpg
__________________________
.

[Jerry McCarty]

Mr. Murphy,

Would love to hear more about the Potomac gunning club that now (or still) occupies the island between Hallowing Pt. and the old Bartholomew Shoreline. A couple guys I hunt with in Rock Hall hunted their frequently in the 70's and early 80's. I had a stake right off the shoreline of what I believe to be Bartholomew land and also hunted Broad Cr. In late 90's a few times. Used to wear out cans and redheads before the Potomac lost a lot of habitat just north for Washington Harbor at Smoot Bay (which I also used to gun). Will see if I can find scanned article from an old issue of Decoy Collector magazine that covered the various Potomac River gunning clubs that existed right up to about WW II. I believe it mentions the club you hunt with as well as the club just down river at Chapmans Landing where Herbert Hoover hunted fowl. I now hunt mainly from several blinds accumulated over the past 15 years or so on the west side of Mason Neck. Will be shooting a Fox 12 bore with newly acquired New Era ITX shells. By the way, if you want your own island in the fabled Potomac, I heard a rumor that Dogue island in Occoquan Bay, also reported to be gunned by Hoover back in the day is on the market. We know this as Conrad Is and a great seagull roost.

Jerry

[Tom Kidd]

Good Morning Chris, I would be very interested in your copy of Senator Hawes' book if you should decide to part with it. I only have the one Becker, a 26" 20 ga. and the monogramed vc case it spent its life in. Every so often, the single trigger will miss tripping, but I don't have the nerve to move the original untouched screws to clean it, so maybe one time in 50 or so it will be a single shot. It is getting better with use though. There is also a long barreled companion Becker of Senator Hawes' out there somewhere that has surfaced and was in, or maybe is still in, a well known collection??? I only recently got back to semi-serious hunting (translation: about 3 hours in the woods puts me on the DA list) after successful minor back surgery and some new meds. Will Rogers had it right in that 'getting old isn't for sissies', Ahhhh, but Life is Good!

[Bill Murphy]

Chris, sorry for the flub. I saw the initials (CSL) and assumed your name was Patrick!

[Christopher Lien]

Chris, sorry for the flub.
----------------------------------------

That's ok Kevin, sometimes I get things mixed up too...;)

Best, Chris ~ CSL
___________________________

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I'm glad the origin of this case of shells was cleared up. It was an interesting idea that they might have belonged to Nash but since he died in the late 60's and continued to hunt waterfowl until not long before his death I'd had my doubts.

DLH

[Bill Murphy]

There was never any mystery to be solved about the "origin of the shells". They came from Marse Henry's house.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Your initial post on this thread called them "Nash Buckingham's Last Case of Lubabloy" or something to that effect. Hence my comment about the origin of the case, they did come from Marse Henry but they probably weren't ordered for Nash.

Destry

[Bill Murphy]

So Destry's name will be deleted from the list of those interested in a box of the Bartholomew ammunition stash, at his request. I see that Dave Noreen doesn't choose to be on the list either. However, I will be offering Harry B. Hawes' 20 gauge Model 21 for sale at the Northeast Side by Side shoot. It is a 1933 Tournament Grade two barrel set, restocked at the factory in fifties vintage style, and probably reblued at the same time. The barrels are 30" Full and Full, and 26" WS1 and WS2. The gun is lettered 1933 to Parker Whelen, 14th Street, N.W. Washington, D.C. for delivery to Harry B. Hawes. This Harry Hawes lettered Model 21 has more provenance than the Bartholomew shells, I think. No Cody letter on the ammunition, only my opinion that John Olin may have been gifting ammunition to Nash Buckingham because of his contribution to the early and continued research on those shells, but hardly to Henry A. Bartholomew, who John Olin probably never met. Oh, well, I enjoy my own "stuff" and don't feel the need to force others to enjoy the same "stuff". I'm glad I have not been caught badmouthing the collections or interests of others. I've just never seen the need to do so. I like everybody's "stuff".

[Tom Kidd]

John Olin was a Very close friend and visitor to Oxen Hill. In fact, he had a '21 trigger guard made with a gold inlay that exactly matched Eisenhower's '21 and gifted it to Henry. Life is Good, Remember; Treat it with Respect!

[Bill Murphy]

Tom, thanks for the information about JMO's relationship with Marse Henry. I agree that "Life is good and treat it with respect". I respect everyone's interests and collections. I wish those who have posted on this thread had the same feelings. I, like Tom K, am in my seventies and don't have a long time to go. I have not and will not disrespect any collecting interest or collections of any of our companions, and I would expect the same from them.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I don't need a box of the shells because I already have a box just like them, it's just that simple.

Destry

[Alexander Sharpe]

Thank you all for this thread. It gave me plenty to think about. All great names and good men behind them, great men actually. I had to look up John Olin, wow what a powerhouse. I'll be researching the rest as well. This is a mighty wonderful site to learn American History on a personal level.

[Scot Cardillo]

I appreciate this thread as well because I'm about a mile from the Potomac and I have fished the entire river, for years. I'm familiar with the areas that have been discussed and I'm also familiar with about every creek along the river. I enjoy learning about the history of the river and it is just that, steeped in some serious history going back to Colonial times. Tidal fishing (for Bass) is a whole different ball-game as compared to ponds/lakes. Here's my tip for anyone fishing along the Potomac. Go to the back of the creeks…ALL the way back. Find yourself the skinniest water (6" deep) that's also full of grass which makes the water gin clear. After you catch the two or three 5/6 lber's out of the area, you can enjoy the rest of the day catching 2-3lber's until your arm gets sore. All on an outgoing tide, of course. Be sure to leave the area before low tide or be prepared to await the next incoming tide b/c your boat's going to be stuck in the mud.

Although it's blurry, here's a snapshot of a nasty ol' SnakeHead I caught when they first showed-up in the river several yrs ago. This was one of only a few caught at that time and as the picture shows..it's a pretty big one. Caught him on a jig.

[Scot Cardillo]

Kansas enjoys the boat as well. It's hard to keep him in it. It's a pain in the ass.

[Scot Cardillo]

..and, there he goes : |

[Stan Hillis]

This is my first post on the PGCA forum. I appreciate very much the info given on this thread as I was privileged to be able to spend an hour with BoWhoop (I) before it was sent from Savannah, GA to Julia's auction to be sold. The shells are only secondary in interest to the gun itself, for me. I have looked for a box of the original loads myself, and have not been able to locate any. This is not an original, even tho' it looks like it. Twenty-three of the shells in it are original, tho'. I do, however, have an original full box of the 1 5/8 oz. Luballoy loads.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/bowhoop/IMG_0099.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/bowhoop/media/IMG_0099.jpg.html)

Maybe someday. Thanks for the info, Bill.

SRH

[Frank Srebro]

I was recounting the appearance of the Bartholomew case of shells at the Southern SxS about 8 - 9 years ago, to some gents when the subject came up at the recent Northeast SxS at Hausmann's. I had a chance to buy the sealed case of 20 boxes for a relative pittance, as did several other Foxers who were there and also by proxy (me) to a northern collector/dealer I'd called from the tent to confer but he declined too. The gent who had them for sale knew what they were and he was also at this year's Northeast. All told, just goes to show how interest in something and value of same can escalate exponentially over just a few years. Bill was astute in recognizing and tracking down the Bartholomew case of Super-X''s when he did it right after that year's Southern.