Interesting gun - conversion to hammerless

[Jeff Davis]

This is interesting- I assume many here know the provenance of this gun?

https://new.liveauctioneers.com/item/46058901_a-early-rare-cased-parker-hammerless-conversion

[Rick Losey]

why does a Parker looks so much like a Lefever????

[Jeff Davis]

If you read the description they are saying the gun was sent to lefever for the conversion

[Dean Romig]

Yes, it is shown on page 8 of the Summer 2016 Issue of Parker Pages on the color Morphy's Auction full page advertisement. Definitely a piece for a collector.

It would surprise me however, if the gun "was given to Lefever by Parker" as the write-up states. There doesn't appear to be anything in the research letter that would indicate Parker Bros. ever bought the gun back from an owner.






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[greg conomos]

I don't despise it as much as I thought I would.

[Jeff Davis]

According to the write up The Parker records show it was returned to change the action type, assumedly from hammer to hammerless?

[Fred Verry]

So would this be a rare $217.50 grade LeParker?

[Chuck Bishop]

I find nothing about S/N 2625 in the order book database, there is however a record of the gun in the stock book. Either Ron Kirby or Mark Conrad wrote the letter, it's not in the letter archive. I don't know how the letter could state it was sent by Parker to Lefever if it's not in the order book database as to having an entry in an order book. It is a 11ga. with 2 sets of barrels. It looks like the barrel steel is listed as "iron." About the only thing really clear is the S/N, LOP, barrel lengths, and weight. All the names of individuals are very faded out and I'd be hesitant to state a name/names in a letter. It looks like it would be called a Quality D in later times but back them they just called them Dollar Grades but since there is no record in the order books listing what the price was, it's just a guess.

[Dean Romig]

According to the write up The Parker records show it was returned to change the action type, assumedly from hammer to hammerless?

In the case of establishing provenance we try not to 'assume' anything that is not clearly stated in the archived records.

The letter appears to have been signed by Ron Kirby. We can see the tail of the "y" in Kirby.
Not assuming here, but using deductive reasoning.


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[greg conomos]

It's a bit of a contraption, since you'd have to break the action open with the lifter then cock the hammers with the sidelever. But it has a crisp look, and the bolsters are great.
Still don't like seeing any Parker with Lefever engraved on the side.....same feeling I get when I see a Ford with a Chevy engine in it.

[Todd Kaltenbach]

The gun was at the April Tulsa show and the owner claims the letter is proof the gun was Parker's first hammerless gun. It has a side lever to open if I remember correctly but I really doubt Parker asked Lefever to convert a hammer gun hammerless for them. It is certainly interesting but my first thought was "Why would anyone ruin a nice hammer gun this way?"

[greg conomos]

I think - could be wrong - you still open the gun with the lifter underneath.

[Robin Lewis]

Unusual patent mark on the lock, "pat 20 1880". Generally, patent marks are done as month day and year like the one pictured on the bottom of this guns frame.

[Dave Noreen]

Looks like the locks of a typical side-cocker Lefever replacing the Parker Bros. hammer locks.

[greg conomos]

I think these bolsters look like they are engraved with designs mean to invoke lightning bolts or electricity. Is that correct?

If so, it's very interesting (to me) as this gun would have been built right around the time electricity was becoming part of the world as we know it. The 1870's and 1880's saw a tremendous rise in the knowledge base related to electricity, and of course it was all manifested in products such as light bulbs, motors, and all sorts of other devices.

I'm guessing this was pretty avant garde engraving for the time.

[Dean Romig]

Lightening bolts engraved at or around the plunger heads was a relatively common theme especially on grade 3 and higher Parkers or their equivalent dollar grade.






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[Bill Zachow]

I would guess that Lefever used this gun to experiment/test his ideas on the side cocker patent but for the life of me, can not figure out why he would use a Parker. He was building his own guns during this time period. I question the statement that Lefever only built 750 sidecockers as about 20 years ago I purchased 2 side cockers at Frank Lefever's gun shop. They were consecutivley numbered 10 gauges, serialed 4999 and 5000.

[edgarspencer]

Dan Lefever was one of America's most accomplished firearms designer, perhaps second only to Sam Colt. He was a terrible businessman, evidenced by the number of failed Lefever partnerships.
There is no doubt we have a different perspective than they had back 120+ years ago, but it doesn't seem like the pride of the Parker's would have them offering up one of their guns for someone else to make claims of advancements in design. I would only be guessing, but it might seem more likely that the gun was supplied by someone else; perhaps a customer, who wanted it converted. I don't think anyone is claiming that the subject gun at Morphy's was a prototype.
In studying the pictures on the Morphy website, it appears that the Parker frame is unaltered, and perhaps can be converted back to a hammer gun simply by removing Lefever's lock, and re-installing hammer-gun firing pins. I think it is a beautiful piece of workmanship, and it seems to me the side cocking lever makes the gun that much quicker to reload and fire quickly. I think it's a fabulous opportunity for a collector. High grade Lefevers are perhaps the only American SxS that rivals a Parker of equal grade, for beauty, and design. A friend has an 1875 Nichols & Lefever push button opener that is as nice as any $250 Grade I have ever seen.

[greg conomos]

John Browning....?

[edgarspencer]

John Browning....?

Good point! How could I be so remiss?

[greg conomos]

No Prob!

Actually, I like this gun OK but I think their estimate of $20-30K is a tad optimistic....

[Bill Murphy]

I think we saw this gun on display at the Gold Medal Concours in Millbrook, NY a few years ago.

[Rick Losey]

sold at 18K plus 22%

[Dave Noreen]

I think we saw this gun on display at the Gold Medal Concours in Millbrook, NY a few years ago.

The one I seem to remember seeing at the Gold Medal Concours was the one on Page 121 of The Parker Story, not this Lefever side-cocker conversion.

[Chuck Bishop]

I attended the Morphy auction Saturday and examined the Parker's up for auction. I met a PGCA member there who I did not know and he purchased the SC SBT. It was in great condition, the only issue was about a 1/2" wood extension on the butt but it was not something that stuck out like a sore thumb. I think he got it for $2,250 plus premium and sales tax. I think it was a very good buy. I missed out on the 12ga. PH with 30" Parker steel barrels at the last second. The only issue I could find with it was checkering which did not have a mullerd border. The gavel was about to drop when someone upped the bid and I didn't follow. I would have just flipped it so no big deal and the wife would not be mad at me!

I stated on a previous post that I couldn't find this gun in the order books yet the description stated that the research letter said it was returned for work in 1887. The serial number was not in the order book database and I went through the 1887 order book for that month and day and the gun was not there. When I read the research letter at Morphy's I found that the date in the guns description was wrong, the gun was returned on Sept 27, 1879. When I got home I went to that date in order book #6 and found the entry. Who ever compiled the order book database missed that serial number. The description of the gun matches the order book entry so that mystery is solved. What "Alter to new action" means ($2.50) I don't know but I doubt it has anything to do with Lefever. It could just mean to incorporate new patients. It looks like Lefever installed new lock plates, I didn't see any evidence of holes for the hammer axles. The engraving looks more extensive and different than Parker used at that time however I'm not real familiar with those early guns. Also, the top tang where it goes between the bolsters seems to have a upward sloping ramp to the edge of the breach face that is more pronounced than later lifters. The engraving pattern on the top of the bolsters differs quite a bit from a D grade lifter. It looks more like a sun with rays shooting out more than lightning bolts. The 30" Damascus barrels were blued, the 26" Plain Twist barrels were either browned or oxidized, you could barely see the twist pattern. Overall it is a nice example of a hammer gun converted to a hammerless but I just think that stating that Parker sent it to Lefever to do the conversion is a stretch.