Fiber wads

[Kirk Mckinney]

Good Morning Gentlemen

Does anyone on here load with fiber wads?? I tried to load a couple with a plastic wad recipe and it takes a lot of wad and still didn't fill up my 2 1/2 in 12 gauge shell. I put 15 gn. of 700x and then a 1/8 card I think it was, then 2, 1/2 inch wads then 7/8 shot and still wasn't enough to fill it up. Is there a limit to how much you can put in one of these? Does fiber wads increase the recoil because there isn't anything like a plastic wad to collapse? I heard that the pressures decrease with fiber ? Any wisdom from a some with experience with these wads would be much appreciated

[William Davis]

I use them on Black Powder loads. Black takes up a lot of space in the hull so Fiber filler is appropriate. Typically fibers take up less space in the hull than a modern plastic wad. Here is how the stack goes

Powder

Nitro card over powder wad, I use the .125, they come thicker and thinner. You need the Nitro over powder to provide a barrier between hot gas and the filler wad.

Filler wad, I use a variety of fiber filler wads. Most of the time buy the 1/2 inch gauge specific and split down to right thickness or use more than one to get a good crimp. Filler fibers are available in several configurations wax coated etc. I use the plain old fibers. Will also use filler wads in modern plastic shot cups to take up space. Example 16 G fiber bottom of a 10 G shot cup intended for larger shot loads makes it fill nice with 1 1/8 oz shot.

Shot


Over shot card wad. Again available in several thicknesses, depending on what the load needs. If fold crimping you don't have to use the over shot wad. But sometimes I do use a O/S in old paper hulls that don't crimp very well.

Thing about the fillers is you use them to adjust stack height. Makes different shot and powder charges come out right for crimping. Ballistic Products has load data for fiber wads, Black or Smokeless. You want to check them for data with your components. Pressures are a function of the whole load, hull, primer, powder, shot wads etc. Fiber may or may not decrease it, Use good reliable data and you won't go wrong. Everything used to be loaded with fibers it's not unusual.

Honest other than biodegradable I don't see any good reason to use fiber wads in smokeless loads. Black powder does not do well with plastic wads, melts and makes a mess, fiber is the way to go.


William Davis

[Kirk Mckinney]

You may be right William. I guess I kinda wanted to load some because for some reason I thought it might keep the pressures down and velocity up on 1 oz loads. Don't know why I thought that besides I try to be green if I can. When I first got my old Sxs I bought a case of those holland and holland from classic shooting and thought they were cool. I was shooting at cardboard for patterning and I literally saw the fiber was going down range and cut a perfect hole in the cardboard. Lol mainly I wouldn't mind loading them because the people that let me hunt on their ranch are very kind and if I could keep from littering with plastic I would. Thanks for your input

[Paul Harm]

Yes there is a problem with all that space when using fiber wads and nitro powders. A fold crimp will help. Normally fiber wads have less pressure and velocity than plastic wads because they don't seal as well. The old reloading manuals use to say to use 10% less powder if going to plastic wads. You could also cut your shells down shorter than 2 1/2. I've loaded 2 3/8, 2 1/4, and even 2" shells. Some days I have too much time on my hands.

[William Davis]

Pauls cut shorter idea is the way to go. Smokeless not being bulky is going to have a hard time filling a long case with fibers. English shells are or were available 2 inches. I think Balistic products sells a pamphlet on fiber shell loading. May want to check it out .

William

[Carl G. Bachhuber]

As a kid I loaded many hundreds of paper cases with fiber wads, one shell at a time, on a single stage press. That was a while ago for sure. As I recall I would prime, add powder, then seat a .135 card and then dump in whatever shot charge I was going to use. Once done, I would measure the distance from the top of the shot to the case mouth. For 12 ga. I believe I subtracted 9/16" (Star crimp). The remainder was the height of the fiber/felt wad that was required for a good crimp. For a final tweak I could switch from a .135 card to a .2. Once I did this I would dump the shot, add the fiber wads and press on. I kept notes for each load. I even had a case 'iron' that heated the case until the wax melted. This would give a nice stiff case mouth for the crimp. The wad column height had to be right on as there is very little give when crimping. The paper cases would only last a couple of loadings before they would start to burn through around the base. A lot of work for a box of shells!
Carl Bachhuber

[Paul Harm]

You didn't say what shell you're using. Remington and Winchester are a tapered wall and have less space where as Federal and all the imports are a straight walled shell and have more room. If you look up reloading data you'll notice the SW shells usually take another grain or two of powder for the same pressure. Also Federal and CCI 209M are magnum primers, hence they're hotter giving more pressure. Usually there's less powder when going to the hot primers. So, IMHO data for 2 1/2" shells is the same as for 2 3/4" shells except you have to find a way to make everything fit in the shorter shell. One way is to substitute a wad, from the same manufacture, that has a shorter cushion. Use a wad intended for 1 1/8oz but load 7/8oz. I called Claybusters and ask if I was loading low pressure shells and did a sub like I just suggested would the load be safe. He said he didn't have any data, but if was him, he wouldn't be afraid to shoot them. So I use a wad meant for 1 1/4 but use 1oz. The shot sits down in the cup and the petals stick up and fold over with the crimp. Or you could use fiber wads and adjust the total load column by using different cushion wads as Carl suggested. In my IMR manual with a Fed shell, 1oz of shot, and any primer, 17grs gives 1200fps and 7000psi. In a Rem or Win shell, 15grs has 7000psi but only 1100fps. This all with plastic wads. Using fiber wads will lower pressure with the same load. You could go a grain up in powder and not worry. These are also with a fold crimp. A roll crimp will lower pressures slightly. You didn't say why you want a 2 1/2" shell. A gun chambered for 2 1/2 can shoot 2 3/4 shells and only raise pressure about 500 to 800psi. If you're loading under 7000psi I wouldn't worry about pressure.

[Paul Harm]

After all that, what I was trying to say is IMO 15grs with fiber wads and a roll crimp is too light. I would be using at least 16grs, maybe 16.5 and not worry. If your shells seem to perform acceptable with what you have, then by all means stay with it. Don't let my rant change it.

[Paul Harm]

Walt, when reloading for pistol or rifle the pressures are much higher with very little powder. Changing the load by a couple of tenths can make a big difference and be even dangerous. With black powder even 30 or 40grs wouldn't be dangerous. With shotgun a grain or two will up pressure and velocity, but if you're loading at the low pressure end, it won't make a big or dangerous difference. I have manuals from all the powder manufactures I got 7 or 8 years ago at state trap shoots. They still hand them out and I find it much easier to use them than go on the internet and type stuff in for a load. It's much easier to compare different loads and what they do. With 15grs of 700X and a 24gram load [about 11 BB's less then 7/8oz] you can get 1100fps and 5300psi. That's with a CB-1100 wad [1oz]. 16grs is 1200/6300psi, and 17grs is 1250fps/7200psi. All those loads are safe, low pressure loads. So you can see we have a little lee way, even if you screw up and get a extra grain or two of powder. Other good powders are Red Dot or Promo [ both the same for data ] , Green Dot, or American Select. They're all Alliant powders and seem available. The Hodgdon powders seem harder to come by. Hope this helps. Paul

[Kirk Mckinney]

Well I think after looking at every thing, I am going to put all these fiber wads on a shelf for another day.. The plastic wads work well and maybe I will revisit it some day..... I have a question for you guy that shoot a lot. What do you clean your bores with , and does plastic really build up in the bores....

[Mark Garrett]

Plastic build all depends on how smooth or polished your bores are. Plastic is not really a big problem and is easy to remove . When using card and fiber wads without a shot cup you will definitely get lead build up which is harder to remove than plastic , but still not a big problem .

[William Davis]

As many routines as there are shooters. Here's mine.

I wipe the bore out with some Balistol on a blue shop towel right after shooting. Pay attention to the Chamber, bigger sometimes the patch won't get it like it does the barrel. I have a separate short rod just for chambers. Outside wipe down with Balistol too. If using the gun again soon that’s all.

My modern O/U using cheap promo loads with soft shot seems to fowl more than reloads with quality shot in the Parkers. Or it could be the Chrome plated bores show it more. Plastic causes no extra problems. But I don't use Plastic of any kind in Black Powder loads. Like Mark said fiber wads let the barrel lead more than a plastic shot cup.

Every few times I use the gun will clean more thoroughly. Have a couple of Delrin rods threaded one end for a brush other end has a power screwdriver bit inserted so I can Spin it under power. You could do the same thing wiping, under power it’s faster. Depending on the bore may use JB Bore Paste or 4/0 Steel wool lubed with Balistol. If they are rough little extra help speeds the job.

I wipe out the inside of the frame with a towel & Q tip too. Re-lubing very sparingly. Other thing is I always pick the gun up day after and give it another quick wipe before storing.

William

[John Dallas]

Aerosol Brake Cleaner

[Paul Harm]

Plastic build up is more of a problem with guns that have replaceable chokes. My wife's O/U guns get it all the time, but my old SxS's don't seem to have the same problem.

[William Davis]

Don't have any plastic problems with Parkers either. However am using quality components. No end to the length manufacturers will go to save a fraction of one cent per shell. No doubt promo loads use the cheapest wad, and they may build up plastic in bores.

Something builds up in my O/U may be lead may be plastic. It’s on a steady diet of cheap factory loads.

William