live bird gun

[scott kittredge]

i have a 20 ga straight stocked VH 30'' full/full with no safety,(live bird gun ?) is there anybody that you that could put a safety in the gun, i have all the parts and there is a knock out where the safty belongs in the top tag. the wood has not been cut out for it in the stock. this is not a collector just a nice shooter. has anybody else done this before? scott

[Bruce Day]

I have one that went back to the factory for this work.

Might ask DelGrego. If anyone could do it, they could.

[Bill Murphy]

Does the gun letter with no safety? Is the top tang marked "SAFE"? If it is an original no safety gun, much of its value is in the rarity of the feature.

[Pete Lester]

Scott's 20ga. A small bore pigeon gun?

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj57/nhshotgunner/20ga.jpg

[Drew Hause]

That is a very special gun Scott. Does your research letter document for whom the gun was made?

Feb 22 1913 Sporting Life
Twelve-Year-Old Ralph K. Spotts Gives Promise of Being a Star.
A twelve-year-old boy, Ralph K. Spotts, son of Ralph L. Spotts, a well-known trap shooter, stepped in among the veterans at the Larchmont, N. Y., Yacht Club shoot February 8, broke 70 out of 100 targets and won the Larchmont and Visitor's Trophy shoots, competing with 14 of the club's crack shots, including his father. The youngster returned a full score of 25, with a handicap of eight, in the first 25-target event and repeated the score in the next, clinching his winnings by shooting off ties with "grownups" in both events. That the boy was not favored with his handicap of eight targets is evident from the fact that in his first attempt at the elusive clay birds, made only a short time ago, he was able to break only 47 out of 100—an initial score not without promise, by the way. In his one other trial at the traps before making his first published scores, the young shooter broke 53 out of 100.
Ralph L. Spotts, father of the young man, was a member of the victorious trap shooting team at the (1912) Olympic games (using a Remington Autoloading Shotgun), and firmly believes that every boy should learn the use of arms and ammunition as part of his life equipment.

[Dean Romig]

Sure looks like a special order gun from here.

Straight grip or pistol grip??

I would not alter that gun. It has a safety - it's called a top lever.

[George Lander]

Scott: Please do not under any circumstance have your rare Parker altered by having a thumb safety installed. Like Dean said "You have a safety. It's called a top lever" Carry you gun with the barrels breeched. That's the best safety in the world.

Best Regards, George

[Jeff Kuss]

Scott,
If you want a 20 ga. with a safety, I would recommend buying one that way and selling the one you have.
Jeff

[Harry Collins]

Scott,

J.D. Gay ordred all of his Parkers without safety. His 20 gauge DH(E, I can't remember) is like yours behind the top lever. I just don't have a picture of it. He shot the snot out of this 20 and carried it closed as he thought if you were safe even if the gun did discharge no one would be hurt.

Harry

[Dave Suponski]

Scott,Congratulations buddy! Will we be viewing this wonderfull gun at Hidden Hollow? :rolleyes:

[Richard Flanders]

Is it possible that Scott is just messin' with everyone? That he knows what a piece this is and has no intention of altering it??? Is that him I hear howling with laughter in the background somewhere??:rotf:

[Drew Hause]

Harry: could you please post an ultra close up high resolution pic of that '2 screw' selective Parker single trigger for http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/22972484 and thanks!

[Robert Delk]

Yeah, safeties just give one a false sense of security anyway.People do stupid things and mechanical devices fail,so just keep her pointed in a safe direction and act like like she is always loaded and wanting to go off by herself...and of course be prepared in case you would fall with her loaded,no finger on the trigger and the hand covering the trigger guard.

[Fred Preston]

Drew, Here's a pic of my 20ga VHE with its 32" and 28" barrels. It too is safteyless with a 2 screw SST. The trigger has not been reliable for me; L. D. got it going good for me about 4 years ago but it has since reverted to its wayward ways. I'll see if I can get some highres closeups for you to go with Harry's.

[Kurt Densmore]

Weren't most of the small bore guns with no safety ordered by the gentleman quail hunter in the south?? No need for a safety when one only loads a gun when walking up on a covey that is being pointed by a brace of fine dogs. But then, I have heard of guys that don't use the safety on their modern guns. Why take the time to flip it off safe when a bird is flushed....:shock:

[scott kittredge]

Weren't most of the small bore guns with no safety ordered by the gentleman quail hunter in the south?? No need for a safety when one only loads a gun when walking up on a covey that is being pointed by a brace of fine dogs. But then, I have heard of guys that don't use the safety on their modern guns. Why take the time to flip it off safe when a bird is flushed....:shock:

Kurt, for the most part your wright about quail guns, but this gun is tight choked. 7/8 oz 6's 83% at 40 yds :shock: i have an angle going on this gun now and maybe we will all be happy :) scott

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I'd say there's somebody out there that would be happy to trade you a decent 20 gauge with a safety for yours. My guess is you've already got some PM's.

DLH

[Harry Collins]

Drew,

I do not have access to the little 20 gauge as it is in the custody of my dear friends son. He said he would get it to me a month ago to look at and if and when I see it again I will take pictures inside and out.

Harry

[Rich Anderson]

The best safty a gun has is the person behind it.

[Dale Zywina]

I carry my 1911 era DHE straight grip no saftey Parker cracked open when going partridge hunting with an companion, but alone I keep it shut, just like my farther taught me ,there is only one saftey thats your brain!! I wish mine was a 20 gauge as that would make a perfect all season shotgun for partridge, good luck but please do not defame that peice of history, Dale in Canada

[calvin humburg]

I was hunting by myself (well bojack was with me my blue heeler) with my hammer gun hammers cocked had it pointed abought 10 oclock finger across trigger guard(i believe Dean told me that)in some tall thick fireweeds ran into some sheepwire legs stopped body didn't put gun butt down to keep from falling don't think it was pointed at my head but they could of been. just looked up and said thanks for the lesson. Watch the ground also, in new places. One can never be to careful. ch

[Bill Murphy]

Shooting myself with a bird gun is the absolute least of my worries when hunting. However, when hunting with others, I would treat a safetyless pigeon gun just like I do a cocked hammer gun. I would carry it open and loaded. True, it is difficult in heavy high brush, but you do what you have to do.

[bob weeman]

Pete, is that a picture of Scott's gun?.....if so I was looking at the same gun and considered buying it but did not. That looks exactly like the picture the dealer had on his site. Congratulations Scott on such a great gun!

[Fred Preston]

Drew, Here are some pics of the 2 screw SST on my VHE 20. I hope this works; either I have forgoten the proceedure, or the rules have changed.

[Austin W Hogan]

Learn to cock the left hammer first. A hammer gun can be carried hammers down and the left hammer cocked on the mount as fast as a safety can be released. The rear trigger first allows the right hammer to be cocked as the hand moves forward for the front trigger.

Best, Austin

[Harry Collins]

Like Austin, I too carry hammers down. I started shooting a hammer gun while in Italy in 1972. I shot alot of skeet 400 to 500 shells a week. With a down gun by Internationa Rules stock tuching the hip and butt rearward of my elbow I would cock the right hammer on the way to my shoulder for the first clay and drop the gun down to cock the left hammer for the second shot. Granted I was not that good at it, but typical score was around 96 out of 100.
Alot of the people I shoot sporting clays with have their safety off all the time. I suspect that if they practice shooting that way their safetys are off when afield. Same as having hammers cocked you just can't tell.

Harry

[Pete Lester]

Granted I was not that good at it, but typical score was around 96 out of 100.

Harry

Not that good at it with an average of 96 :rotf:

[Pete Lester]

Pete, is that a picture of Scott's gun?.....if so I was looking at the same gun and considered buying it but did not. That looks exactly like the picture the dealer had on his site. Congratulations Scott on such a great gun!

Yes same gun. I gave it some thought too,

[Harry Collins]

Pete,

I hated staton 8. Can't move the gun until the bird leaves the house. I just wasn't that quick. The fellows I shot with had their guns mounted when they called for a bird and were going 100 x 100 most of the time. I was shooting to improve my field hunting so shot by International Rules. The team I shot with wasn't real happy with me.

Harry

[Dean Romig]

If you hunt with hammers down you must be hunting pheasants or chukars or be hunting pretty open cover. If I hunted with hammers down in the thick cover of gnarly old apples, maple whips, thornapple and spruce where I hunt I would rarely get a shot off and if I was lucky enough to shoot it would likely be where the grouse was - not where he is about to be.... :rolleyes:

[Larry Frey]

if I was lucky enough to shoot it would likely be where the grouse was - not where he is about to be.... :rolleyes:

Kind of like sporting clays yes?:eek:

Sorry buddy, couldn’t resist.

[Francis Morin]

What a silly pair of targets- Hi and Low Houses Eight present. As the late Nash Buckingham said- "Any game bird taken at that close in range would be pulped and not worthy of being cooked for the table" or something akin to that- When we shoot Mexican skeet at DU events here- we can pivot and take each single at 8 as a going away birdie- but Lo Gun rules apply, no pre-mounted gun-

I'm not a skeet or clays man- I prefer to see a big ball of feathers hangin' in de breeze after I shoot a scattergun-but check me out on this- High House 1 or Low House 7 pegs- unless you have a crossing or quartering wind of some magnitude, you are shooting at a dead straight away moving target- granted, the rim or thin edge- BUT how many birds do you flush that ever fly in a dead straight flight path?:duck::duck::duck:

[Dean Romig]

What a silly pair of targets- Hi and Low Houses Eight present.

Not if you're a serious grouse hunter Francis. I experience those kind of shots almost every day I hunt them - Remember, the game of skeet was developed to improve one's skill in grouse hunting and if you practice you can bust 'em both right out of the house from a very low gun position.

As the late Nash Buckingham said- "Any game bird taken at that close in range would be pulped and not worthy of being cooked for the table" or something akin to that-

Not so! I can't remember the last grouse or woodcock I shot that wasn't perfect table fare. Focus on the head not body mass.

When we shoot Mexican skeet at DU events here- we can pivot and take each single at 8 as a going away birdie- but Lo Gun rules apply, no pre-mounted gun-

I'm not a skeet or clays man- I prefer to see a big ball of feathers hangin' in de breeze after I shoot a scattergun-but check me out on this- High House 1 or Low House 7 pegs- unless you have a crossing or quartering wind of some magnitude, you are shooting at a dead straight away moving target- granted, the rim or thin edge- BUT how many birds do you flush that ever fly in a dead straight flight path?:duck::duck::duck:

Admittedly low 7 is a straightaway target but don't let high 1 fool you... unless you lead a tad under the bird you may not break every high 1 that you shoot at.

[Harry Collins]

When the game was still "Pull" and "Mark" everyone took their option bird on low house 7. Back then if you missed high house 1 the option was still taken on low house 7. It cost about $10.00 to shoot 100 and that included the shells. What's money when your making about $4,000.00 a year.

[Dean Romig]

Harry, I always take my option at low 8 :)

[Harry Collins]

Dean,

These days I always take my option on high house 2.....

Harry

[scott kittredge]

When the game was still "Pull" and "Mark" everyone took their option bird on low house 7. Back then if you missed high house 1 the option was still taken on low house 7. It cost about $10.00 to shoot 100 and that included the shells. What's money when your making about $4,000.00 a year.

for me to hit a hundred it would cost me just about ,yes 4000.00 a year , yea :rotf: scott

[calvin humburg]

good 1 Scott, ditto. ch

[Rich Anderson]

I can shoot at 100 skeet target for $12 plus the cost of shells. Not a bad price these days. Breaking all 100 is another story. I need to take a shooting lesson from Suponski....stack em up on the ground and blast em:rotf:

[Dean Romig]

I shoot 100 clays at my skeet club for $8 but it involves filling the big carousel machines, sweeping up spent shells, off-loading 46 pallets of White-Flyers twice a year, picking up the errant soda can or coffee cup, squadding and tallying the take for the day.... all part of being an RO

....maybe it's not so cheap after all :shock:

[Francis Morin]

I yield to the grouse hunters like you Dean- which I am not anymore, no woodcock- quail non-existent here due to MI Winters, pheasants almost kaputski, and Hell freezes over before we ever get a legal dove season-

I am mainly a pass shooter- serious waterfowler, and the occasional Tower release pheasant/pigeon shoot followed by the pick-up hunt with the dawgs. I do know that any bird coming from behind and overhead I may kill if I pull through and see the going-away bird with daylight over the muzzles- My favorite shots are incomers, a mallard dropping into the stool, shoot his toes- a mallard spooked and getting airborne- shot his nose- Divers, lead 'em, lead 'em more, lead 'em even more yet- and Canadas into a head wing, double your lead-

Wish I could get serious about clays, but I started shooting barn pigeons with my 20 gauge M12 when I was about 13- got hooked on it back then, my favorite target awing- Can't speak about doves, as I have no experience with them (yet) but a pigeon will always drop from its perch when taking flight, to load its wings--

Hardest feathered target I have heard about but not yet tried- snipe--toughest duck specie to kill dead in the air- either scooters or bufflehead-



I have shot pen raised pheasants, quail and chukars- all good- but even though I am NOT a grouse hunter- I will give homage to Sir Ruff-you will never hunt him on a stocked game farm or club- just like Mother Nature, he cannot be tamed- and therein must be the "vade mecum" of the Royal Order of the Brushworn- stock scarred grousemen- Miss one for me this coming Nov..:cool:

[Dean Romig]

Miss one for me this coming Nov..:cool:

I'll try Francis - Lord knows I'll try :biglaugh:

[todd allen]

i have a 20 ga straight stocked VH 30'' full/full with no safety,(live bird gun ?) is there anybody that you that could put a safety in the gun, i have all the parts and there is a knock out where the safty belongs in the top tag. the wood has not been cut out for it in the stock. this is not a collector just a nice shooter. has anybody else done this before? scott
It would be insanity to modify that gun, but I think you knew that.
:rotf:

[Bill Murphy]

OK, look back at 5-22 where Harry Collins posted a picture of a single trigger gun. This is the picture that a poster refers to on 12-6-10.

[Eric Grims]

Boy I'd like a Parker like that. I do own an 4E Ithaca flues trap with no safety that saw most of it's early days as a live bird dove gun in Pa. I now use it for trap and the occasional barn pigeon. It's simplicity is a pleasure. With safety considerations and about 90% case color it won' visit the woods any time soon.
Enjoy