Vintage Style Shooting Sweater Purchase.....

[Destry L. Hoffard]

We have an opportunity here, and I wanted to test the waters to see who might be interested. Anybody who’s ever studied old shooting photos has seen the great shawl collar cardigan sweaters that were often worn on the trap range and in the field as well. Things like this just aren’t made anymore, at least not like those. I’ve wanted one myself for years.

I’ve been working with my friend Simon James Cathcart in England to possibly bring something like this back into the world. Simon runs a company that recreates vintage garments in modern sizes using classic methods and proper materials through British manufacturers. I have absolutely NO financial stake in the project, I'm just trying to get enough of an order together to make this possible.

He’s got in the works a two tone sweater of the aforementioned style, made of three gauge English Wool in one of the last old school English Woolen Mills in Leicestershire. And none of this modern open weave either, they’ll be done like the originals with some real heft. Produced on a vintage hand loom which allows for much more control, giving it a tighter weave, better angles, and curves for a finer fit. Buttons will be actual antique corozo nut from the 30’s, old stock found recently and absolutely perfect for the project.

He’s doing a limited production run in a full range of sizes up from Small to 5xl. The colors we’ve chosen for the shooting sweater are British Army Green (OD) and Dead Grass Tan for the stripes on the collar. The picture I’ve loaded is the sample sweater in black and white, this is the prototype. The only difference between this and the production model is it will be slightly longer. I’ve also loaded another picture of the yarn samples for the actual shooting sweater so you’ll have to use your imagination a bit. The mill sent him this photo and it's not what you'd call high definition, but they're old school as I said. Take my word for it, the colors will be perfect and quality top shelf.

But here’s the rub.

Simon needs to buy these specific colors of yarn and the minimum order equals 25 sweaters. I’ve committed to buy two, one for me and one for my father. The price is going to be $295 plus shipping, not a casual purchase I know. But this is what I call a Lifetime Garment, meaning if you buy one you’ll use and enjoy it for the rest of your life and then pass it on to somebody else who will do the same.

I can’t say enough about the quality, this is the sort of thing that Abercrombie and Fitch / VL&A were importing in the 30’s and 40’s to sell under their label.

Below is a link to Simon’s website so you can see some of the other products he’s putting out. I ordered two of the British Navy Sweaters as Christmas gifts this past year and have a pair of the two tone Balmoral Boots on order right now.

http://www.simonjamescathcart.com/

Orders will have to be paid before production begins, then the sweaters will be shipped in the fall. He's not taking money yet, I'm just working to see if I can get enough interest to move forward another step. You've got the best shotgun there is, a Parker, now you need a sweater of the same quality to wear while shooting it. Who's in?

[Stephen Hodges]

Destry, best of luck on your sweater purchases. Not my style of sweater but they look really nice and with the quality should sell well. :)

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I dunno, I guess we'll see. I've got five sold so far, none on here at all. I was thinking I'd at least get a couple interested parties from PGCA.

[Marty Kohler]

Destry...There were, a few years ago, some gals up in Maine, I believe, making Baseball team sweaters similar to what you are showing for the Mitchell and Ness Co. For a while they did special orders. then...I believe, they stopped, but I believe your quality will be even better... and $295 for a sweater like that is very fair ....Would it be possible to order an OD sweater with solid dead grass collar? If so I am in.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

No, this is the only pattern that's going to be offered. I think Simon has to work with what the mill has setups for. The beauty of these folks is they'll do a single of any size as long as the color quantity is there. I'm guessing I'm going to be the only 4xl but that's not a problem. Most other places, you'd have to have a production run of every size because they're made on a different kind of loom.

[Dave Noreen]

Some 1901-vintage styles --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Ansley%20H%20Fox/22%20Men%20who%20went%2025%20straight%201901%20GAH _zps8tgfmjyk.jpg

[greg conomos]

Do you have a vintage photo of someone wearing one like it? I'm just curious as it's not a sweater I recall seeing..not that I study old clothes a lot, admittedly.

[Phil Yearout]

Some 1901-vintage styles --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Ansley%20H%20Fox/22%20Men%20who%20went%2025%20straight%201901%20GAH _zps8tgfmjyk.jpg

Looks like they had hoodies in 1901!

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I had a great photo of some brothers from Chicago in a live pigeon match wearing shawl collar cardigans but I'd loaned it to EDM before he passed away and just never approached the family about getting it back.

Did a little Google searching and did turn up one of The Babe in his two tone cardigan.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

And here's another of a late 40's curling team in their striped cardigans. If I run across a shooting related one I'll post it.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I wish I'd have kept photos of a vintage one I owned at one time. It was a "No Sag" brand. The pockets were lined and then the chest was backed to the shoulder with heavy cotton fabric so the pockets wouldn't sag down with the weight of the shells. And of course there's the famous Skookum Shooting Sweaters. The real early ones has a short shawl collar and buttons, but of course I can't find a pic of one of those either.

[Phil Yearout]

Well, it's a way cool sweater nonetheless!

[Destry L. Hoffard]

But do you want one???!!! I have five confirmed parties thus far.

DLH

[Scott Gentry]

Count me in!! Let me know details.

Scott

[Destry L. Hoffard]

That's six! If I can hustle up enough orders I'll let everybody know further details. I have a list going.

DLH

[Phil Yearout]

But do you want one???!!!

Not really my cuppa. But cool.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

The stripped collar seemed to be holding a few guys back. I talked to Simon about it and we've decided to do away with it all together. The sweater will be just the British Army Green with no dead grass details. I have a few guys committed but need a bunch more to make this happen. Please don't hesitant to get in touch if you're interested.

[Scott Gentry]

I am still in, working on others.

[Ross Goldsmith]

I'm in.

[Ross Goldsmith]

Destry: I want one. What's the status on this project?

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Russ,

I'll add you to the list, but it's not looking good.

I have to get 25 order to make it possible and I'm up to seven I think.


Destry

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Just did a head count, we're up to 9 actually.

Still a long way to 25.

[Michael Moffa]

I'll take three, pretty daughter, understanding wife and yours truly. Perfect for wearing around the house during those cool southern winters.

Spin

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Ok, a few guys were interested on here, so I wanted to give an update. The prototype of the sweater (in black with the patch) has arrived and he's posted it to be ordered on his website. Ours will be army green (olive drab) obviously. And we've dropped the tan stripes off the collar by popular demand, so it will just be solid green.

Simon said if I could hustle up 13 orders he would post it as a standard color and try to get the rest of the sales needed through his website.

So now is the time to really speak up. If you want one you've got to commit and give me your size, money will come later. I'll post a link to the order page so you can see the sweater and read the description. As I said, it only shows black, ours will be the same but in OD green (brown buttons) and will not have the skull and crossbones patch:

http://www.simonjamescathcart.com/knitwear/boneshaker

Price in US is $225 plus $20 shipping from the UK.

[Scott Gentry]

I am still in xl.

[Herb Hewlett]

Destry I would like a medium if the measurements are in inches? Thanks,Herb

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Yes, size measurements are in US inches.

Keep them coming guys.

And please keep commenting on the thread rather than via PM.

It will make it a lot easier for me to keep track of when the final deal comes down.


Destry

[Bill Murphy]

Destry, I wonder if Kay Ohye, the original marketer of the Snookums sweater, still has a few hanging in the closet? It would be worth asking.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

The modern Skookum sweaters are zip front and have no shawl collar.

[Steve Cambria]

Some 1901-vintage styles --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Ansley%20H%20Fox/22%20Men%20who%20went%2025%20straight%201901%20GAH _zps8tgfmjyk.jpg

Hmmmm, front row, fourth from Left is ringing a few bells?" :bowdown:
And how about the ubiquitous, Frank Finch same row, farthest Right???

[Ross Goldsmith]

I'll take one in XL

[Bill Murphy]

Ansley is very proud of his Winchester 1897, but Frank Finch is ashamed of his LC and is covering up the receiver with his hand. Don't know why, since he ran a straight.

[Frank Srebro]

The gent in the front row, far right, is C A Lockwood of Jamaica NY, who was shooting a Riely [sic] gun.

[Michael Moffa]

Destry:

will still take 3, small, medium and large

Spin

[Brian Spires]

I'll take an xl. Please let me know where to send payment.

*Edit: I just checked sizing. My chest measures 46.5", I'm 5'11, let's call it a robust athletic build... It looks like I'm between XL and XXL. I might need the proprietor's recommendation when selecting the appropriate size.

Thanks for putting this together.

[bobutler]

Destry. I'll take an XL.

Bo

[Herb Hewlett]

Destry,Any chance of having suede elbow patches added at additional cost?

[Destry L. Hoffard]

The sweaters are all I can offer, but you can get patches easy enough and have them added by a local seamstress.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Ok boys, we're up to 11 thus far.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I need 15 orders before he'll add the color to the web page and try to get the remaining 10 orders from there.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Up to 12! We're getting close.

[Drew Hause]

Sorry for being late to the fashion show ;)

J.J. "UMC" Hollowell, Watson's Park, Chicago Dec. 1897

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/21690841/389834428.jpg

1898 GAH winner E.D. Fulford

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/21690841/389691556.jpg

1897 & 1899 GAH Winner Thomas Marshall

Leslie's Weekly Illustrated, N.Y., May 4, 1899. Marshall, C.M. Grimm, J.G. Knowlton, J.A. Jackson, S. Hoffman and Geo. Roll (possibly standing behind Marshall) all killed 25 birds. Marshall won with 33 birds in the shoot-off after Grimm missed his 32 bird.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/19974446/407098862.jpg

Larchmont Yacht Club Jan. 30 1897, Harper's Weekly

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/19974446/407115946.jpg

Courtesy of Chris Lien - "May 4, 1899-Lincoln, Neb. - The world's record for a squad of five men, shooting at 20 targets each, made at Peru, Ind., May 3, was equaled by a squad at the Nebraska State shoot by the 5 man team of (right to left) George Rogers, Lincoln, Neb.; A. B. Daniels, Denver, Col.; W. S. Duer, Hastings, Neb.; C. A. Young, Springfield, O., and F. S. Parmelee, Omaha, Neb. made a world's record of 100 straight."
?3 shawl collars and one very sharp sombrero :)

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/19974446/397271258.jpg

[Drew Hause]

1905 "Baker Gun Quarterly" courtesy of David Noreen; definite shawl collar

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/19974446/394324848.jpg

[wayne goerres]

Looking at those pictures makes me wonder how many of those men served in the war between the states.

[Drew Hause]

Several shawl collar sweaters here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/163mfN_OKTwMUJm64GFZK7wHgq3KEGUUvI6JhNdw_Pmw/preview

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Ok boys, it's officially on, the sweaters are on the website so you can order them.

Simon has had a color sample done by the knitting mill so you can more get an idea of what you're getting, and he's showing the buttons that will be on them as well.

Check the size chart and confirm on your own garments, don't just guess. This isn't something we can return for a different size. They'll literally be making "your" sweater from whatever it is you order, there won't be anymore.

With the British Pound so weak against the dollar right now, this is really a great opportunity to buy good stuff like this from the UK.

Here's the link to order. There's also a chat option on the website that Simon personally answers if you have any questions, or feel free to contact me of course.

http://www.simonjamescathcart.com/knitwear/boneshakergreen

As I said before, they WON'T have the skull and crossbones patch on them like the others. Several guys have voiced concern about that, I wanted to make it clear.

The knitting mill is saying they should be able to deliver before Christmas.


Best Regards,
Destry

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Ok, I think I've messaged everybody personally who was interested as well. If I missed you I'm sorry, and if I messaged you more than once I'm sorry too. Hah!

[bobutler]

Just wondering if anyone has communicated with the vendor about sizes. I measure between an xl and an XXL. I guess they probably stretch a little...

Update: In case this might help someone else, a message was received from the vendor: a 46" chest would need an XXL...

[Destry L. Hoffard]

They'll be somewhat stretchy, but I would use the chat feature and talk directly to Simon just to make sure.


Destry

[Ross Goldsmith]

Just ordered mine.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Great!

I'm sweating this one, my neck is kinda out on it, since we didn't make anybody pay deposits.

[Michael Moffa]

Just ordered 3. The tax credit, the spousal unit and I.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Fantastic!

[Scott Gentry]

Bo and I ordered ours last week.

[Eric Estes]

Got one ordered. Thanks for putting this together Destry

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I think almost everybody has paid now. Simon is going to let me know Monday.

[Herb Hewlett]

Ordered mine yesterday!

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Simon worked this up so we would have a better idea of what they'll look like.

[Bob Roberts]

Destry,

Just convinced the keeper of the exchequer that she needs to gift me one of these for Christmas to wear to the range along with my recently refurbished 1920s John B. Stetson army officers' campaign hat, The sweater is ordered, paid for and confirmation received - thanks for solving her Christmas shopping dilemma this year.

Bob

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Hah! Excellent

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I just noticed something, this thread has had over 4000 views. How is it we've only sold 15 sweaters? Hahahaha!!!

[Brett Souder]

Just ordered mine this morning.
Thanks, Destry

[Randy Davis]

They were a hit with the Winchester Team...

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Excellent

[Phil Yearout]

Well, maybe if they had a "P" on them for when team Parker goes up against those teams from Fox or Smith...:whistle:

[Randy Davis]

Now that`s a great idea...

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I have an interesting patch in the works actually.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Ok guys, 22 of the 25 have been spoken for. Its not too late though, the last three are still available in any size you want to order.

[Brett Souder]

Hi Destry,
Any word on the sweater delivery date? Has anyone received theirs yet?

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I just spoke with Simon about it yesterday. In traditional fashion, the mill is taking their own sweet time. He's expecting to start getting the first few in hand next week.

He doesn't know which color they ran first, his black ones or our green ones.

It's looking like a post Christmas delivery. Sorry guys, I thought before Christmas was a little overly ambitious, but that's what they told him originally.

[Brett Souder]

No worries Destry. I just appreciate you putting it all together. Thanks again.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I'm glad you asked, I'd meant to post an update and it kept slipping my mind.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Update: The first few sweaters have arrived from the mill and will be shipping this week. The remainder will arrive after the new year. Simon sent me a picture of the finished product and they look fantastic!

Also further good news. He's had enough inquiries to probably do another 25 sweater run so has opened up ordering again on his website. The price has gone up a tenner, but if you enter the discount code CHAP our folks will get them for the original price.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Anybody got theirs yet? The first few shipped right before Christmas according to Simon. He's waiting on another batch that should arrive in a week or so.

[Michael Moffa]

Not yet,

[Scott Gentry]

Nope

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Don't feel bad, neither do I....

[Herb Hewlett]

Anyone receive their sweaters yet?

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I had word from Simon over the weekend that the knitters were assembling them this week and shipping to him as soon as they were done. Assembling means the parts are all complete, they've just got to put on the sleeves and collars essentially.

Sorry this has been such a slow process boys. The mill is a tiny place, I think less than 20 or so folks working, so it's a slow process.

[Michael Moffa]

Any word on the patches?

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I haven't started back in on that project yet. I've got a maker lined up, so it's just a matter of getting folks orders and setting it up.

Actually, I wanted everybody to get their sweaters before I did anything else. I've worried over this one project enough, once we've all got them in hand the next one can begin.

Destry

[David Noble]

Destry, I revisited this thread when it came up today and was impressed with the look of the finished sweater. I tried the last link you posted (boneshakergreen) and nothing comes up. Do you know if they closed this run?

[Destry L. Hoffard]

http://www.simonjamescathcart.com/knitwear/boneshakergreen

There's the link to order from the 2nd run. They're slightly more expensive this time, that was sort of an introductory deal.

[Herb Hewlett]

Just received an email from the carrier saying that my sweater is on the way!!

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Just had word from Simon that a bunch of the sweaters are gearing up to ship!

Mine isn't one of them.....

Curses!

[Herb Hewlett]

As I said before I received an email from a shipping company that my sweater is on it's way and should be here any day!

[Brett Souder]

Just received an email that my sweater is shipping out tomorrow. Yea!

[Craig Larter]

Ordered one from the second run

[Herb Hewlett]

Just received an email [5minutes ago] that my sweater is here.Too bad I'm not ,will not be home till sunday.

[Herb Hewlett]

SWEATER showed up just as we were leaving .Literally walking out of the door.
WOW it is really neat and heavy weight .
I would put pictures on forum but I don't know how and we are off to Bar Harbor in minutes.

[Jack Damon]

Sorry, this just isn't my cup of tea. The quality of the sweater looks great, but I don't favor the appearance of it. Hope that doesn't offend anyone, but the original post did say he was "testing the waters".

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Did you buy one? Sorry I don't understand, are you saying you don't want to order one or that you purchased one but don't care for it?

Destry

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Here is a message direct from Simon, good news and bad news:

Men, a further ten SJC "Gun Club" sweaters have been sent out today from England and will land in the next few days. However there are six members sweaters to do. We burned through 50 pound weight in wool for this order, and caught the knitters unaware, so they have had to get another batch of Drab Green dyed. It's hand dyed old school and the wool arrives next monday. The knitting will then commence and the remaining six orders will be shipped directly. Hang in there they are well an truly worth it.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

P.S. from Destry: Mine is one of these last few apparently, but I'm glad some of the others are making their appearance. Since it's a bigger size than publically offered, I'm guessing they're saving making it for last. So if you don't have your sweater yet I feel your pain.....

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I've just had word from Simon that my sweater has actually been produced and he will be posting it right away. He was holding back telling me to let it be a surprise.

Then of course he had to give me the old: "Well, yours was so big it ran them out of wool."

He's a funny guy ol' Simon.....

[Brett Souder]

Got my Sweater today and its just awesome.
Thanks for including us in this chance to buy a great hand made product Destry.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I've got my Dad's in hand as well. These things are amazing!

[Craig Larter]

Any idea when the second run will happen?

[Scott Gentry]

All of first run not complete yet I do not believe.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Mine showed up today too! It's very nice, even in my huge size. LOL

No idea on the 2nd run, I'm still worrying over everybody in the first run getting theirs.

[Jeff Kuss]

Destry,
We want to see you model the new sweater!
Jeff

[Scott Gentry]

With pipe!

[Michael Moffa]

Destry, Simon says (haven't played that game since Lady Bird was taking down road signs) in an e-mail last week that my 3 sweaters are delayed due to using up all the wool on yours. So you might want check in with him again. I hope that these show up soon as winter is fading here in the deep south. It's been in the 70's this week but does cool off at night.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Simon is hilarious.

I'm sorry some of these have taken so long guys. This wasn't supposed to be how it played out. Apparently the mill is a tiny place and they just sort of do things on their own time frame.

They're well worth the wait, even if it's next fall before you get to use them.

This is exactly why I've been hesitant to move forward with ordering the patches for them. The guy did an amazing job on the prototype but it took me over six months to get it after I paid him!

[David Fishley]

And thats why...

(Edited by John D. for content and brevity of a political rant... )

[Scott Gentry]

And thats why ...
(Edited by John D. for content and brevity of a political rant... )

You sure you are in correct thread?

[David Fishley]

Scott and all,

I am in the wrong thread. My apologies to all.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Mr. Fishley,

You're definitely in the wrong thread, I buy local and pay more because it's the right thing to do. Everything I buy new gets checked out via google to see if there's a USA option, if not then it gets checked for options from countries that I find more palatable buy from like the UK and Canada, then Europe. I just bought new tires for my truck a few months ago and paid another $250 over the price of Mexican made rubber because that's what you should do.

Oh yeah, and the price of these sweaters was like a gift. The only thing similar to them that's made in the US isn't nearly the quality and is pushing $500. After that you move to Japan with limited sizing and they're about $350, then it's junk made in China.

If you don't like this that's fine. But let's not get too uppity about it with a bunch of guys who value quality and prefer to do business with places that have fair wages, safe labor practices, and good environmental track records.


Destry

[David Fishley]

My apology...
(Edited by John D. for content and brevity of a political rant... )

[Craig Larter]

Is this the Parker GUN forum or have logged into the wrong place?

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Uh oh, this must be one of the Double Gunshop regulars.....

Notice he's a "forum associate" and not an actual member. Buys Chinese and is too tight to join the club. That tells me all I need to know.

DLH

[Phillip Carr]

Mr Fishley it is my personal opinion you are way out of line here. Your rant reminds me of the old saying no deed goes unpunished.
Destry is not mass producing sweaters, he is as many of the members do, and have done worked to produce something for the members here at cost, and sometimes at a loss.
These sweaters are custom made in the style, and materials from an era a century ago. Probably less than 50 will be made.
If you are not intreasted or can not afford one of these sweaters " Let it go. There are many here that appreciate what Destry is doing.
There is no need for a lesson in economics, and manufacturing. Also your political comments are not in keeping with the rules of this forum.
Look at posting in Off Topics or another forum.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Let's leave Mr. Fishley alone here guys, I've reported him to the moderators for making political comments. From this point on, I'll let them handle it.

DLH

[John Dunkle]

My apology not accepted. Sorry.
.....[large snip]....But not dumping to hard on the American producer and consumer, Canada is no better.

Good luck with your sweaters.

You were fine up to this point.

Have a good evening.

BTW - enjoy your vacation from this community. I am somewhat confident we will continue without your political diatribes - of that, I am confident.

John Dunkle

[Bruce Day]

The sweater arrived last week and was waiting when I returned from quail hunting. Very nice and thank you Destry for taking the initiative and effort to do this.

[Richard Flanders]

And good on Mr.John D for "taking care of business".... Next move should be to just remove his posts.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Glad you like it Bruce, they were better than I ever dreamed they would be. I've got to get my patch sewn on so I can get some pictures for the boys. Hah!

[Michael Moffa]

Destry, my three shipped two days ago. They might be the last ones. His website has some interesting things. I think an Old Reliable shooting vest may be next.

[Craig Larter]

Mine shipped its in Louisville on its way to Fairport.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Great news! Anybody else still lacking?

Destry

[bobutler]

Yes. Still waiting for two. They were in Louisville yesterday.

[Bob Roberts]

Destry,

Re'cd notice last week mine is on the way, temp that day was 74 F.

Bob

[Michael Moffa]

Destry:

Showed up today, they are wonderful. Thank you for putting this together.

[Eric Estes]

Mine showed today. Better than I hoped for. Thank you Destry for making this happen. Awesome stuff! Now we need some cold weather again, lol.

[bobutler]

Received ours today. Very nice. Thanks Destry.

[Brett Souder]

Desttry,
Just wanted thank you again for getting the sweater order together. I have had dozens of compliments everywhere I wear it and it is so warm.
Thank you, Brett

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Dad had his on the other day when I was home, collar rolled up around his ears. I need to get the patch thing rolling again, I have to get a prototype run from another maker. The guy who did the original one is just too slow.