Stock Repair - Posts MOVED from "Knot" thread

[Rick Losey]

thanks Greg- i'll check with some speed shops and see if a small piece can be had

might work

[Rick Losey]

As I understand it the lead will build up a crusty layer of oxide from it's environment. This is how lead corrodes or oxidizes and this build-up is what will split the wood...

I don't believe it was poured into the cavity in a molten state or it would have charred the wood and eventually you would have a heavy lead slug sliding back and forth inside the stock. I believe the lead slug was tapped into the bored recess and waxed or glued into place.
The oxidation would have occurred from a damp or moist environment over time.
.

very possible - where would moisture come from with a duck gun :whistle:

so - maybe sealing the lead with some modern waterproof product would work

I wonder if we should have this split into a new thread with its own title in the restoration forum and let this one get back to knots -- it would be interesting to keep this going -

a little help from a moderator please

[John Dallas]

Is it possible that the seback experienced when the gun is fired could cause the malleable lead rod to deform into a shorter, larger diameter piece, and that could cause the splitting?

[Rick Losey]

Is it possible that the seback experienced when the gun is fired could cause the malleable lead rod to deform into a shorter, larger diameter piece, and that could cause the splitting?

possible , but at least in this case- the plug is not loose and completely fills the hole

[John Dallas]

As I visualize it the plug would drift aft, and a void would be created in front of the plug. You couldn't see it. If my half-baked idea is close to right, the plug would not be loose. It would have swollen and would be jammed so tightly that it cause a wood split.

[greg conomos]

http://www.mcmaster.com/#tungsten-alloys/=120cdyn

"High strength durable tungsten" on this page is what you'd want. Not cheap, but not out of this world....$178 for 8" of 3/4 " diameter bar.

[greg conomos]

Is it possible that the seback experienced when the gun is fired could cause the malleable lead rod to deform into a shorter, larger diameter piece, and that could cause the splitting?

No...lead is soft but it's not that soft.

[Eric Estes]

I believe it is as Dean and some others have said. Moisture over time corrodes lead into lead oxide or lead carbonate. This is less dense than lead itself and increases the volume as corrosion occurs. In time this will split the wood. I am no chemist, but after 100 years I would think that even the low moisture content of the wood itself would be enough to do this. Of course many guns have their wood exposed to considerable moisture helping the process along. It does not happen overnight.

[Phillip Carr]

Here are my thoughts. Lead expands when heated and contracts when cooled. Lead coefficient of expansion in inches per inch of material per degree of F is 0.0000151. Lead melts at 621 degrees. So if the lead added to a hole drilled in a stock was one inch in diameter it would actually contract .008 when it cools. Resulting in just a few thousandths gap around the lead rod. I think my math is correct possibly not.
After the initial cool down the temperature expansion and contraction would be quite a bit less in the average hunting and storage environment.
I think Dean is correct in corrosion could result in expansion and cause splitting. I also think the wood expanding with humidity or wood constricting due drying out may result in the splitting. If my think is correct, which it might not be, then any heavy metal would resut in the same possibility of cracking the stock.

[Phil Yearout]

Knot and wood filler in my old 16ga Stevens 5100, in the wrist no less! I guess you can expect such in a Stevens, but it's still in one piece so far...

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w109/prairieschooner/Temps/013_zps3355a3xo.jpg

[Brian Dudley]

The lead in the stock if this 10 year old Beretta S05 that i have in the shop now was already splitting from the lead in the butt of it. So it evidently does not take 100 years for it to happen.

[Rick Losey]

ok - what if it happens the other way

metal is added to the drilled hole and

the wood shrinks??

[Dave Tercek]

If the wood shrinks wouldn't the hole get larger.
I had a 16g VH that had a knot in the stock. The center of the knot actually fell out. I had to glue it back in.
dave

[Rick Losey]

If the wood shrinks wouldn't the hole get larger.
I had a 16g VH that had a knot in the stock. The center of the knot actually fell out. I had to glue it back in.
dave

i have seen that happen in other wooden object

this crack is unrelated to the knot on the other side - which is stable

[greg conomos]

"I think Dean is correct in corrosion could result in expansion and cause splitting. I also think the wood expanding with humidity or wood constricting due drying out may result in the splitting. If my think is correct, which it might not be, then any heavy metal would resut in the same possibility of cracking the stock. "

Tungsten (which has the highest melting point of all metals at over 6000 Deg F) does not begin to corrode until you reach 700F. Since walnut ignites at around 300F, there is a comfortable safety margin in effect here.

[Phillip Carr]

Corrosion is only one factor. Wood expands or contracts a great deal depending on the moisture content of the wood. Since butt stock wood grain is not linear, Reducing or increasing moisture into the butt stock might result in the wood expanding or contracting in multiple directions.
Since we have knots and lots of other neat patterns we like to see in our gun stocks. The wood can grow or shrink in multiple directions resulting in torquing of the wood. If you have a lead or other metal rod running down he center of the butt stock it will want to hold its shape and since it is stronger than the wood, a torquing effect could take place resulting in stress crack to the butt stock.

[Phillip Carr]

End

[Phillip Carr]

end

[greg conomos]

Phil, what are those photos showing?

[Phillip Carr]

I need to pull the leather strap off my WC Scott. If you expand the picture at the top you see about 5 or 6 small birds eye knots. Lots more under the leather. Tried to remove pictures since they are so terrible since they are horrible but I can not.

[Phil Yearout]

Knot and wood filler in my old 16ga Stevens 5100, in the wrist no less! I guess you can expect such in a Stevens, but it's still in one piece so far...

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w109/prairieschooner/Temps/013_zps3355a3xo.jpg

Why was this post moved from the "knot" thread to the "stock repair" thread? It shows a filled stock knot and nothing about any repair. No big deal and I guess I don't care one way or the other; just curious.

[Dean Romig]

'Moderator error'.... He's only human ya know :whistle:






.

[Phil Yearout]

Moderators are allowed to be human? Who knew?