AMMO QUESTION

[Troy Miller]

Looking for an opinion from the board since much more knowledgeable minds prevail here.

I have a 16 gauge vh 28' with full and mod. and I have been shooting the federal game loads 1oz muz vel. 1195 2 1/2 deq. with no problems. looking to pattern gun for turkey should i be ok using 1 1/8oz 1295 muz vel and 3 1/4 deq?

[charlie cleveland]

troy pattern your gun at a turkeys neck and head if at 40 yards or long steps if you can put at least 6 pellets in the kill zone your good at 40 yards dont just shoot it one time try for at least 3 times if you have the 6 shot average your good to go....if your gun fails this 40 yard try try it at 35 yards...no 6 shot is good to use in the 16 ga....charlie

[Troy Miller]

IT WAS THE ADDED AMOUNT OF POWDER AND LEAD I WAS WORRIED ABOUT GOING FROM 2 1/2 DEQ TO 3 1/4 DEQ. I HAVE NOT SHOT HIGHER PRESSURE LOADS LIKE THAT IN THIS GUN YET.

[Jerry Harlow]

OVERRULED.

[Daryl Corona]

I would stick with the 1oz. load. If you want to shoot 1 1/8oz. move up to a 12ga. Limit your shots to 35yds. by luring the old tom with some sweet talk.

Pressure is not the only thing to concern yourself with but the added recoil is tough on old wood.

An extra 1/8oz. of shot will only extend your range about 5 yds.

Good luck with your hunt.

[Dave Noreen]

Unless your 16-gauge VH-Grade was made in the 1930s, it most likely started life chambered 2 7/16 inch intended for the 2 9/16 inch 16-gauge shell.

16-Gauge History lesson --

From the late 1890s until after WW-I, the heaviest 16-gauge loads our North American ammunition companies offered were 2 3/4 drams of bulk smokeless powder or 22 grains of dense smokeless powder such as Infallible or Ballistite, pushing 1 ounce of shot. Those loads could be had in the "standard" 2 9/16 inch case or any of the longer 2 3/4, 2 7/8 or 3-inch cases. In late 1922 or early 1923, Western Cartridge Co. added the 16-gauge to their progressive burning powder loads called Super-X, but unlike the 1 1/4 ounce 12-gauge and 1 ounce 20-gauge Super-X loads which were put up in Western's 2 3/4 inch FIELD shells, the 1 1/8 ounce 16-gauge Super-X load was put up in their 2 9/16 inch FIELD shell. When the Lubaloy shot Super-X loads were introduced in July 1929, they were put up in Western's high brass RECORD shell, but the 16-gauge still in a 2 9/16 inch length case.

The 2 3/4 inch 16-gauge shell really began to get some traction when Remington Arms Co., Inc. introduced their Model 11 and "Sportsman" autoloaders in 16-gauge in 1931, chambered for 2 3/4 inch shells. While Remington's regular Nitro Express 16-gauge progressive burning powder load was put up in a 2 9/16 inch hull with a load of 3 drams equiv. pushing 1 1/8 ounce of shot, for their new 16-gauge autoloaders they introduced the slightly faster Auto-Express with a 3 1/4 drams equiv. charge pushing 1 1/8 ounce of shot --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Rem-UMC/16-gaugeAuto-Express_zpsa3fde229.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Rem-UMC/16-gaugeAutoExpressNo5_zps9c6b9b18.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Rem-UMC/16-gaugeAutoExpressNo7_zpsaf0b721e.jpg

I'm thin on Winchester ammo catalogues, but for sure by 1934, they were offering a similar 2 3/4 inch 16-gauge load.

The 2 3/4 inch Magnum shells with 1 1/2 ounce in 12-gauge, 1 1/4 ounce in 16-gauge and 1 1/8 ounce in 20-gauge first appear in the December 15, 1954, Western Cartridge Co. catalogues.

Western Cartridge Co. added a 2 3/4 inch 16-gauge to their Super-X offerings for 1938. From 1938 through 1942 they called this 16-gauge 2 3/4 inch Super-X shell "Magnum", even though it was still a 1 1/8 ounce payload. By Western Cartridge Co.'s March 7, 1946, catalogue the term "Magnum" was gone from this 2 3/4 inch 16-gauge Super-X shell. In Western's January 2, 1947, catalogue, the 2 9/16 inch 16-gauge Super-X shell was gone from both the chilled shot and the Lubaloy offerings, and their only 2 9/16 inch shells being offered were Xpert. This may have been an oversight, as the 2 9/16 inch 16-gauge Super-X shell with chilled shot is back in Western Cartridge Co.'s April 8, 1948, catalogue and price list, and the 2 9/16 inch 16-gauge Super-X loads remained until their last appearance on Western Cartridge Co.'s January 2, 1962, catalogue and price lists, where it is "available until stocks depleted." By Western Cartridge Co.’s January 2, 1963, catalogue and price lists the new Mark 5 was introduced and all the 16-gauge Super-X offerings are 2 3/4 inch. By the January 2, 1964, Western Cartridge Co. catalogue and price list the 16-gauge 2 9/16 inch Xpert shell is gone as well.

[Rich Anderson]

You have an older gun with old wood. Daryl makes some good points follow the suggestions.

[William Davis]

Few 16 G cartridges made most of the current production has to cycle auto loaders like the A5 My opinion it's too much for vintage doubles. My Trojan 16 use 7/8 for birds, not Turkeys. But it's shot on the target that counts and if you pattern your gun with lighter shot loads you may find it puts plenty of pellets on a Turkey. Tight choke won't waste a eight or quarter ounce like a more open gun will. Reason we get away with light loads in Parkers is the tight choke.

William

[Paul Harm]

William, the A5 will cycle any shell from the lightest to the heaviest. You just have to take off the forearm and change where the friction ring and bronze friction piece are located - above the spring or below it. Back to Troys' question - With old guns I like to stay on the light side of loads with the 100+ year old woods. I'm right now fixing a crack behind the top tang on a friends old double. I gave him a load for 3/4oz of shot but he decided to use 1oz with the same powder charge. Cracked wood.

[Troy Miller]

The gun has been restored so no cracks or oil soaked

[Paul Harm]

I guess some of us are making the point - you don't want cracks from shooting heavy loads in a 100 year old gun.

[Bill Murphy]

I assume you don't reload. A 16 gauge Parker for 40 yard turkeys could easily be loaded with about 1 1/4 ounces of #7, #7 1/2, or #6 at 1100 fps and would not harm any Parker. I shoot nothing but the 1 ounce promotional load and would just pull both triggers if I got a gobbler in my sights. On the other hand, how about a slug and a body shot.

[Dean Romig]

I would just pull both triggers if I got a gobbler in my sights. On the other hand, how about a slug and a body shot.


I would only do that if the gobbler had five beards in graduated lengths from 10" to 15" and be sporting 2" spurs.....






.

[charlie cleveland]

i agree with bill...i dont believe the few heavy loads that would be shot at a turkey in 1 1/4 ounce in 16 ga would do any harm to a 16 ga or any other gauge..i have shot several heavy loads thru my old parker 8 ga s with no problems to there 100 plus year old wood.....charlie

[Steve Havener]

Don't fool yourselves about shooting heavy loads in vintage doubles. I have had three guns develop cracked wrists shooting moderate (1 ounce Factory) loads. One a 1923 vintage L C Smith Featherweight and two Fox Sterlingworths, a 1922 vintage and a 1935 vintage. Now I load all of my own ammo for my double guns maintain recoil energy at or less than 20 foot pounds for low volume shooting hunting loads and 16 foot pounds of force for high volume clay target shooting.