2 1/2 inch 12 Gauge Documented Loads Only

[Kirk Mckinney]

Gentlemen and Ladies if any are on here. After lurking in every dark and unsavory place on the internet (lol) searching for 2 1/2- 12gauge lp loads. And after speaking to several powder manufacturers trying to get them to develop loads for our vintage guns. I was told no way would it ever happen. I told one powder manufacturer does he know how many people shoot vintage guns, He replied 3. lol He wasn't buying it. None the less when there is love involved, there is a way. As I think we all have a fondness of our old guns. I am starting this thread for published 2 1/2 12 Gauge loads only.
Please list and loads you may have, that have been tested only. With all the stats. I know a lot of you guys that have years of experience with reloading can concoct a load and know pretty much where its going to fall. But so that there will be a list of published loads for the guns we love, please chime in with tested loads only, the stats and most of all who did the testing.

2 1/2 Cheddite hull, Cheddite primer
16.0 gr. American Select powder
Precision reloading part # TUWG2512 wad
7/8 OZ. Lead shot
1165 fps. and 6110 psi.
Be sure to keep the crimp depth at .050 to .055 as the pressures increase after that.

2 1/2 Cheddite hull , Cheddite primer
15 gr. 700x powder
Precision reloading part # TUWG2512 wad
7/8 lead shot
1160 fps. and 6160 psi.
Be sure to keep the crimp depth at .050 to .055 as the pressures increase after that.

Gentlemen please list documented loads so that we can all enjoy the nostalgia of pulling out one of these fine old guns out at the range or for a morning hunt. If these loads were more accessible more people may join us.
See you in the field.
Developed by Keith at Precision Reloading, Great Guy and very reasonable pricing.

[Rich Anderson]

Commercially loaded 2 1/2 inch 12 ga are available from RST, B&P and I believe Polywad as well. RST also loads 16,20,28 and 410 in 2/1/2 inch length and a 2 inch 12.

It's a nich market and I doubt Winchester, Remington or Federal will ever do it hence the success of RST.

[Kirk Mckinney]

Thanks C O B. Thanks For the info. I agree for commercial loads RST shells are sweet. I love them and for anyone that doesn't shoot much I highly recommend them. But if you are wanting to shoot several rounds a week it is a bit pricey. As for pollywad I don't know. Also holland and holland make a fine round sold at classic shooting I think it is.

[Rick Losey]

the Pollywad Vintager is a 2 1/2 low pressure load -

i have had a few cases - used them for clays and hunting - no complaints

they just seems to be harder to find, I can get the RST at any SxS shoot

[Mark Garrett]

Hodgdon site has some 2 1/2" 12ga loads listed this is the lowest pressure of all of them Remington hull cut to 2 1/2' Win. 209 WAA12R Universal 20.8 1oz lead 7,300 PSI 1,180 , if that helps .

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/shotgun

[Kirk Mckinney]

Thanks Mark for the info. It will help someone I'm sure. I certainly hope this thread doesn't take away from any of the commercial companies that load these old loads. I have only bought from classic and rst. Both have great loads and I have nothing but respect for the people I dealt with and I enjoy them very much. I started this thread because after searching the various threads reloaders a were guesstimating their loads it seems. I prefer to know exactly what the load is. Things that go bang can hurt if misused even if by accident since this form is for reloaders I thought since they reload their shells anyway why not share. Thanks Mark

[John Dallas]

Does anyone know what "RST" stands for? Really Special Things?

[Rick Losey]

i asked that a while ago - even asked them at a shoot- no one seems to know

(Morris got the name when he bought the company)

my vote was "retro shotgun technology"

[Paul Harm]

Kirk, I realize you want documented loads; but any load for 2 3/4 will work in a 2 1/2" shell. If you roll crimp instead of fold crimp nothing in the way of components would have to be changed seeing how a roll crimp uses less of the shell. And a roll crimp would give you less pressure. As a side note; I've called Claybuster wads and explained I was loading low pressure shells [ 7500psi or less ] and ask if I could substitute one of their wads that had a shorter cushion height for the short shell. A CB1118 is for 1 1/8oz in a 2 3/4" Rem hull. I shorten the hull to 2 1/2 and use 7/8oz of shot using a 7/8oz shot data for a 7/8oz CB wad. He said if it were him, he'd have no worries - the pressure wouldn't hardly change. You also can go to fiber wads to get the shorter combination to fit and pressures will go down from the plastic wad. And if you're really worried about not having tested shells, send some to Precision Reloading or Tom Amhurst and have them checked. There are a number of ways to reload and not worry about having to high of pressures. JMHO

[Kirk Mckinney]

Thanks Paul for the input. I really didn't start this thread for me as I have the 2 loads listed at the top of the thread. But I started this thread for those who in the future will be looking for these vintage loads. I spoke with IMR and Alliant Powders and both told me not to change anything on their loads ( By the way it looks like Alliant put up a new listing of their loads) or it would be done at my own risk. I understand everyone on here has a greater knowledge of reloading than me. But now that I have 2 set loads I can branch out from there like probably most with years of experience did in the beginning. Anyway I have a lot of goods things in the mail from Precision Reloading and as soon as I get back from Cabo I can begin " Getting off into it ". I plan on trying the loads at the beginning of this thread and making one with fiber wad and sending to the guys at Precision for testing. Also a 3/4 oz load. But right now I am headed to the Sea Of Cortez for some fishing and R&R.
gentlemen I will see you in the field.

[Kirk Mckinney]

P.S. A guy on ebay has 65lbs of 7 /15 and 8 shot reclaimed for $85.00 free shipping with good reviews. I got one and he has several left

[Paul Harm]

With all the legal problems today I can understand the powder companies not wanting to ok loads that aren't tested. Thanks for the heads up on the shot.

[Kirk Mckinney]

Yes your right about everyone having to be lawyered up these days. I am going to try some of those light loads on the powder manufacturers websites and have them tested first as soon as I get my stuff. Does rolled crimping work well? I dont think Ive ever seen it or how its done. I will check it out on youtube. You maybe right that may be the way to go..Also Cabelas has the sizemaster for $236 . It wont discount it till you put it in the cart....just incase you need one.

[Kirk Mckinney]

Paul I just watched a youtube video of roll crimping with a bpi tool... I looks simple . can you re- reload them after you shoot a roll crimped shell or are they no good after that. wow I think that would be a good way to crimp...thanks for the suggestion.

[Rich Anderson]

Morris once told me RST meant Really Smashes Targets but in reality it was the name the company had when he bought it.

[Rick Losey]

Paul I just watched a youtube video of roll crimping with a bpi tool... I looks simple . can you re- reload them after you shoot a roll crimped shell or are they no good after that. wow I think that would be a good way to crimp...thanks for the suggestion.

It is easy to use

I reload mine but I need to expand the mouth a little to get the wad to load smoothly

[Pete Lester]

i asked that a while ago - even asked them at a shoot- no one seems to know

(Morris got the name when he bought the company)

my vote was "retro shotgun technology"

If I recall correctly the original owners of RST were from NH, a father and son I believe. I met them once a long time ago shooting skeet. They were both avid sporting clays shooters and did not use vintage shotguns. I have no idea or recall of what RST stood for. Morris can be credited for taking the company in the direction of producing shells for vintage shotguns.

[Dean Romig]

P.S. A guy on ebay has 65lbs of 7 /15 and 8 shot reclaimed for $85.00 free shipping with good reviews. I got one and he has several left


I wonder how 'once fired' shot could produce good results with a significant percentage of the pellets being deformed from that first compression of being fired and the resulting squeeze through trap chokes.... And then the same thing again when it is fired a second time:shock:






.

[William Davis]

I used to go in on a bulk buy with the guys I shoot with on Sat mornings. All modern gun shooters, 7 1/2 shot. When they switched over to reclaimed I backed out. Afraid of steel pellets in the mix. I looked at samples, not very uniform size or shape. Did not find any steel.

William

[Pete Lester]

I wonder how 'once fired' shot could produce good results with a significant percentage of the pellets being deformed from that first compression of being fired and the resulting squeeze through trap chokes.... And then the same thing again when it is fired a second time:shock:
.

You will not see a difference out to thirty yards. There has been plenty of pattern testing on it. It's plenty good enough for skeet and trap singles.

[John Dallas]

An acquaintance of mine who has been the National Sporting Clays champion, when asked about the difference in performance between premium shells (ie STS or AA) and cheap promotional shells said "None of us shoot well enough to see the difference. Buy cheap". I'm sure there is a difference using reclaimed shot (That's what I'm shooting these days) but the difference probably isn't that bad, and with the money saved with reclaimed shot, you can practice more

[Paul Harm]

We get shot for 35/25lbs so that's 70/50 - not a big difference so I'll stick to the new shot. Roll crimping is easy. Get the ones from Precision Reloading - 1-800-223-0900-https://www.precisionreloading.com/ - [ MMRC12 ] they're cheaper and better - they have four " pins " inside instead of one like BPI's. You can use a hand drill or better yet is a small table drill press - I get a better even crimp. I made a clamp to hold the shell. A channel pliers would work. [ MMRCJB12 ] They can be reloaded again but you'll need something to open them up again. I had a cone shaped item with a 1/4" shaft to fit in a drill to use. BPI has one -SPINDOC - $20. Normally I shot em once and throw them away because shells are laying everywhere at the club.

[Steve Havener]

If I were going to get into loading 12 gauge short shells today I would buy a flat of Federal Gold Medal paper shells and shoot them up in a 2 3/4 inch chamber gun, trim the empties to 2 5/8ths inches overall length and roll crimp them with an antique hand operated BGI (Bridgeport Gun Implement) roll crimp tool available on Ebay for about $20.00. For a load I would choose a published load in the 6500 psi range for the standard Gold Medal hull and adjust the wad height so there is about 1/8 inch from the top of the shot column and the case mouth, insert a .030 over shot card and close the crimp with the roll crimp tool. Total equipment and special reloading supplies (less empty hulls, primers, powder, wads and shot) about $35.00. For wads I would choose a wad designed for a shot weight 1/8th ounce heavier than the load I intend to shoot to compensate for the shorter case length and insure sufficient length for a good crimp.

[Paul Harm]

Steve, I have three of the old roll crimpers - still like the new drill press models better. I have about 500 Federal papers and the plastic ones roll crimp much nicer. These are just my opinions - not trying to say you or others aren't right, just my personal experience and what works for me. If someone wants a old style roll crimper let me know - $20 + shipping.

[Steve Havener]

I guess I'm a slave to tradition. The drill press models can produce nice looking load but require additional equipment not every new loader has such as drill press and holding fixture. My experience is that paper gives me a more astatically pleasing crimp than plastic especially when using RGL's and Winchester compression formed hulls plus the fantastic aroma of the paper loads, especially when using Unique powder, brings back great memories of my youth.

[Mike Koneski]

I wonder how 'once fired' shot could produce good results with a significant percentage of the pellets being deformed from that first compression of being fired and the resulting squeeze through trap chokes.... And then the same thing again when it is fired a second time:shock:
.


Dean, I'd think that shot would be perfect for spreader loads.

[Carvel Whaley]

I recently ran across some homemade shot, not real uniform but ranged from 7 1/2 to 9 shot size, very soft, probably pure lead for $1 a pound. I got 250 lbs of it and see no difference in performance. Wish I could find more. Carvel