Questions of possible Skeet Parker

[Phillip Carr]

I have a gun set aside until I return home next week. I did et a letter which is most helpful but I still have a number of questions. I am posting some pictures for your review and feedback. The gun was transferred to the VP of sales for Reminton J G Heath. The SN is 238331. Listed as a straight grip stock, but clearly it has a Capped Pistol grip. Also chokes and trigger not listed. Your thoughts on the few pictures I have is http://parkerguns.org/forums/images/beige_noir/attach/jpg.gif

[Phillip Carr]

http://parkerguns.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47327&stc=1&d=1457462674

[George M. Purtill]

Phil
I have never personally seen the IN and OUT marked like that. However, this is only 2200 guns after the Remington takeover. So who knows?
The stock data for that period is somewhat unreliable.
I would buy that gun all day long.
Can I use some of your pictures for my upcoming article on Remington guns?

[Dean Romig]

First time I have ever seen "OUT" and "IN" stamped on the barrel flats. But a 1935 gun is right on the cusp of Remington Parker skeet guns, so why not? The game of "Skeet" was named in 1926 but 'shooting round the clock' was being promoted a couple of years earlier.

The configuration is that of a skeet gun though... 26", single trigger, beavertail...

Have you actually measured the choke constrictions?

I wonder what the "D" stamped in the trigger guard channel signifies....





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[George M. Purtill]

I am not sure what that stamp is- looks like a Minion to me.

[Phillip Carr]

http://parkerguns.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47329&stc=1&d=1457465893

[Dean Romig]

Does it have a hard rubber butt plate or a checkered butt?

Looks like it has loads of color and condition.

We want to see more of this gun when it's yours!!






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[Phillip Carr]

Unfortunately I had to go to Mexico for my business and before I could bring down my Skeet bore and choke are. I will get a look at the gun and pick it up next week sometime. George you can sure use any pictures I have. I currently have 3 Remington era guns and access to 2 others. I would be happy to send you any pictures you would like.

Also thanks for the clarification on the Minion, I was lookin at it differently and thought it was a Pacman. LOL

[Phillip Carr]

Parker shotgun, serial number 238331, was sent to J.G. Heath of the Remington Arms Co. and shipped February 11, 1936. According to the Remington IBM Card, it was a VHE hammerless, 12 gauge. It featured Vulcan steel barrels with a length of 26 inches.

According to Stock Book No. 82, the stock was a straight grip and a trap modified forend. The frame size was 1 ½. The stock dimensions, chokes, and butt treatment are not listed in the stock book.

The price listed in the XXXXX price list for a VHE grade with single trigger was $129.00 plus $14.85 for a trap modified forend.

​Parker Bros., Remington Arms Company Inc. and others repaired and reconfigured guns as a major part of the gun trade. Over the years, this Parker may have undergone changes to suit its owners, either at the factory or other competent facility. Complete factory return and repair records do not exist therefore our research team cannot comment, report, or have any responsibility for work performed. It is important to note that those Parker records remaining are hand written and show considerable fading from their age. The research committee has done its best to interpret and report our findings in answer to this request and assumes no responsibility for the recorded accuracy or other work completed.

[Phillip Carr]

It sports a Jostam pad. Will definitly post pictures.

[Phillip Carr]

Last picture.
http://parkerguns.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47330&stc=1&d=1457467088

[Pete Lester]

Normally a Parker "Skeet" gun has the tighter choke, Skeet "Out" in the right barrel and Skeet "In", the more open choke in the left barrel. The reason is the first shot on the skeet field is a high house going away and the second shot a low house incoming bird.

This gun appears to be choked in the normal fashion of less choke in the right barrel "IN" and more choke in the left "OUT".

[greg conomos]

My opinion is that that is a pistol grip stock.

[Phillip Carr]

Yes it is most definitly a Pistol grip, does it look like factoty work?

[Paul Ehlers]

I have 238330 only one gun off from yours. Mine is listed as having a trap modified forearm like yours. Could you post pictures of your forearm for comparisons purposes.

Mine is a straight grip single trigger with a nice stick of black feather crotch.

[Phillip Carr]

I will post next week when I return home. I still have lots of questions on this gun. Would enjoy seeing pictures of your gun.

[Dean Romig]

That is absolutely factory work. In fact, it appears to have the "trap" or 'heavy' comb we rarely see but which are common to competition trap and skeet guns.

This late Parker also has the "Trap" comb.


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[greg conomos]

Yes it is most definitly a Pistol grip, does it look like factoty work?

Parker shotgun, serial number 238331, was sent to J.G. Heath of the Remington Arms Co. and shipped February 11, 1936. According to the Remington IBM Card, it was a VHE hammerless, 12 gauge. It featured Vulcan steel barrels with a length of 26 inches.

According to Stock Book No. 82, the stock was a straight grip and a trap modified forend. The frame size was 1 ½. The stock dimensions, chokes, and butt treatment are not listed in the stock book.

[Phillip Carr]

My thoughts are that possible the VP of sales may have had a buyer that wanted a PG?

[Dean Romig]

Or there is an error in the records.

Example: I have a Grade 4 made in 1884 with 30" Bernard barrels. The gun is all original.... The research letter shows the gun as having been made with 30" Damascus barrels. Chuck even double-checked for me but couldn't find anything mentioning Bernard barrels.





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[greg conomos]

Either way, it sure is a crisp looking Parker. If you decide you don't want it, I'll take it. Next time I get brussel sprouts, you can have mine.

[Phillip Carr]

Thank you Greg Im pretty sure she is going home with me. Fits me great. Just hoping to learn as much as I can. Chasing guns is like chasing birds, the fun is in the hunt.

[Paul Ehlers]

Here's information on 238330. It was also ordered by Heath. As you can see it is a optioned up gun. Straight grip with the heavy trap comb, single trigger, Modified Trap Forearm, checkered butt, twin ivories etc. The interesting thing is the gun has all the makings of a skeet gun except the constrictions are .028" on each bore & not marked on the flats.

Here's some pic's:

[Paul Ehlers]

More pic's of 238330 Notice the letter doesn't mention the straight grip or butt treatment. The serialization book does list it has having the straight grip though.

Does anyone have any information on J.G Heath ?

[Richard Flanders]

Here's another Remington Parker for your article. S/N 239189, 1936. 26" 1-1/2 frame. The pad has a thin glued on leather covering on the butt. 1-1/2" DAC, 2-1/2" DAH, which makes it the flattest Parker I have. Very nice little gun. Best shooting shotgun for me that I've ever owned. I killed I think it was 54 birds in a day at a Utah preserve with it once.

Phil, that gun you have on hold is gorgeous and looks to be worth whatever you have to pay for it. And it's littermate 330 is stunning to say the least.

[Phillip Carr]

Sure some nice looking Parkers

[greg conomos]

Here is the butt of 241412 which is also a 12 ga 1-1/2 frame

[Phillip Carr]

The limited knowledge i have been able to find on J G Heath is he was a competative trap shooter at one point and was the VP of sales for Remington in the 30's.

[Paul Ehlers]

Thanks for the information on Heath !

[Bill Murphy]

Last I knew, "Young" Jack Heath was still the Remington historian. Art Wheaton would know. Google shows Jack Heath passing away in 2014. The "Older" Jack Heath also worked for Remington.

[Phillip Carr]

Back late tomorrow with a scheduled pick up Friday morning. Will post more pictures. Just one question were these selective single triggers?

[Eric Eis]

Yes

[Dean Romig]

Most were.

[Rich Anderson]

I believe Ed Muderlak had a skeet gun with double triggers, a 20ga possibly.

[Phillip Carr]

Picked up the gun this afternoon will start posting some pictures.


http://parkerguns.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47527&stc=1&d=1458366340

[Phillip Carr]

http://parkerguns.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47528&stc=1&d=1458366464

[Phillip Carr]

http://parkerguns.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47530&stc=1&d=1458366734

[Phillip Carr]

http://parkerguns.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47531&stc=1&d=1458366915

[Phillip Carr]

http://parkerguns.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47532&stc=1&d=1458367086

[Phillip Carr]

http://parkerguns.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47533&stc=1&d=1458367190

[Phillip Carr]

http://parkerguns.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47534&stc=1&d=1458367304

[Phillip Carr]

http://parkerguns.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47535&stc=1&d=1458367439

[Phillip Carr]

http://parkerguns.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47536&stc=1&d=1458367563

[Phillip Carr]

http://parkerguns.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47537&stc=1&d=1458367760

[Phillip Carr]

http://parkerguns.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47538&stc=1&d=1458367882

[Phillip Carr]

http://parkerguns.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47539&stc=1&d=1458368078

[Phillip Carr]

http://parkerguns.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47540&stc=1&d=1458368293

[Phillip Carr]

Pictures taken in the sun light. Not the best.

[Daniel G Rainey]

Two great guns ! The kind that make you want to find a bird to shoot.

[charlie cleveland]

boy that gun is new where can one find those new parkers...great gun phil...that gun store you showed me musta forgot they had a new gun way in the back...charlie

[Pete Lester]

Very nice. Is the safety automatic or manual?

[Phillip Carr]

Yes you are right on the money Charlie.
It has a manual safety. With a single selective trigger.

[Phillip Carr]

Just weighed this Parker 7 lbs. 7 Oz

[Dave Noreen]

For those of you who have been playing with Parker Skeet Guns for a while, how are the Skeet-In and Skeet-Out chokes bored?

Is the Skeet-In like the SKEET choke in Remington Sportsman and Model 31 Skeet Guns from 1934 to 1948? A taper reaching about .006" an inch and a quarter to inch and a half from the muzzle, then a flare to the muzzle? I've found the SKEET choke in Remington Sportsman and Model 31 Skeet Guns is just like the "Skeet Cylinder" in the right barrels of Savage's Fox Skeet & Upland Game Guns. Winchester's WS-I in the right barrel of Model 21 Skeet Guns is similar but longer.

I'm beginning to wonder if part of the reason for the demise of American side-by-side skeet guns may be how tight our makers choked the left barrel of their skeet guns. My Ithaca NID skeet guns are .016" in the 12-gauge and .014" in the 20-gauge. I recently reentered the Model 21 realm with a 1953 vintage Skeet Gun and the left WS-2 barrel sports .015" choke.

[Alan Phillips]

Have two Mod. 21 skeet 12 gauges. Both are bored: right .007, left .014. Might have something to do with the ammo they used to pattern with.

[Rich Anderson]

My 16ga VHE skeet is choked .010 & .011 so it's about M/M. I have never checked the chokes on the 20 or 28 ga guns but it might be interesting.

[Phillip Carr]

Well I took measurements today. 2 3/4" chambers. .729 bores. Chokes Left .019 and right .014.

[Pete Lester]

For those of you who have been playing with Parker Skeet Guns for a while, how are the Skeet-In and Skeet-Out chokes bored?

I'm beginning to wonder if part of the reason for the demise of American side-by-side skeet guns may be how tight our makers choked the left barrel of their skeet guns.

Dave, a Parker Skeet gun is choked the reverse of a field gun, the left barrel is the more open barrel (skeet in), the right barrel is the tighter barrel (skeet out). They were done this way because the first shot in Skeet is a going away bird. My 12ga GHE Skeet which is all original as far as I know is bored .007 in the right barrel stamped "skeet out", and .004 in the left stamped "skeet in".

[Phillip Carr]

Pete what is the SN also does this have a single trigger.

[Bill Murphy]

Phil, I am interested in purchasing your skeet gun. I have a 20 and a .410 and am trying to complete my collection. I know it's hard, but I am trying my best.

[Phillip Carr]

Bill PM sent.

[Phillip Carr]

I found this we while looking at past postings on Skeet guns.
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=401138#Post401138

[David Lien]

[Dave You asked so here is the dope on my Skeet Gun Ser.# 237692 Barrels 26 In. RT. Barrel .014 choke .Left Barrel .009 choke. with over an inch of parallel after the chokes. The chokes are 1 1/4 inches long. they shoot card wads just so so, however they really come alive with modern one piece plastic wads. I do hunt birds with this gun as it patterns the way i Want for a bird gun. I shoot mostly hand loads, and it is effective to the limits of pellet energy. The trigger is faultless with light or heavy loads. Both barrels shoot to the point of aim. LOP 14 In. DAH 2 1/4 in. At the time of purchase, The stock was broken and in three Pieces, along with having two inches cut off the butt. The floor plate was also bent and damaged. I did the repairs in house and the gun has held up just fine. Pat shot Skeet Spring leagues at his local gun club with the gun one year. but I use the gun only for hunting.I also did fit a set of 32In. f&f VR rib barrels to the gun. so you can see it is a very versatile hunting gun.gun.URL=http://s911.photobucket.com/user/dlien40/media/DSCN0668_zpsveut9f3u.jpg.html]http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac311/dlien40/DSCN0668_zpsveut9f3u.jpg[/URL]

[David Lien]

Here is another photo
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac311/dlien40/DSCN0670_zpsyyjjpqy6.jpg (http://s911.photobucket.com/user/dlien40/media/DSCN0670_zpsyyjjpqy6.jpg.html)

[David Lien]

Another photo
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac311/dlien40/DSCN0663_zpsajdktl58.jpg (http://s911.photobucket.com/user/dlien40/media/DSCN0663_zpsajdktl58.jpg.html)

[David Lien]

Another photo Repaired floor plate. the floor plate took a little time.
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac311/dlien40/DSCN0665_zpsycr6tvq1.jpg (http://s911.photobucket.com/user/dlien40/media/DSCN0665_zpsycr6tvq1.jpg.html)

[David Lien]

Another Photo Showing 32 inch VR Barrels
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac311/dlien40/DSCN0545_zpsyomhqibm.jpg (http://s911.photobucket.com/user/dlien40/media/DSCN0545_zpsyomhqibm.jpg.html)

[David Lien]

Another Photo This is a working gun, and you can see we are going out into a snow fall.
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac311/dlien40/DSCN0549_zpszr27cl7t.jpg (http://s911.photobucket.com/user/dlien40/media/DSCN0549_zpszr27cl7t.jpg.html)

[Mark Conrad]

I have said this before on this forum and here is another reminder. The grip listed in the Serialization book for the last guns made by Remington are all p/g. This is incorrect and should not be considered when looking at a late or Remington gun. The IBM cards do not have the grip listed. The grip is listed in the stock book but we do not have stock books that run to the very end. The default when building the database was p/g. That explains why the last guns were all listed the same.

[Dean Romig]

Thanks for the reminder Mark.





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[George M. Purtill]

I also did fit a set of 32In. f&f VR rib barrels to the gun. so you can see it is a very versatile hunting gun.

Dave- how did you fit the VR barrels to a non-Vent rib receiver?
Can we see a close up where the dolls head is? Thanks

[David Lien]

George
Sorry for being late with response. I took photos this Am left film with nice lady that develops them for me, then went rabbit hunting. We have a good supply of jack rabbits again.
The barrels came off from a DHE Parker that was from your neighborhood. They fit the gun without a lot of work. I took the barrels to the Vegas Gun Show twice and asked the east coast guys who they thought was responsibly for them. many said that they thought DelGrego, and or Frank Lefever, some said maybe a joint effort. Time line was late 50s early 60s???. Their story… MAYBE OUR MAN BILL MURPH WILL GIVE US HIS OPINION... . We could most likely bet a beer on what he says..I think that I have three or four good photos here.
The rib on these barrels tapers from .525 little over 1/2 In. to .280 just over 1/4 In. It is a REAL DELIGHT to look down them at a late season Pheasant with both barrels loaded with a good stiff load of hard lead #3s. The barrels shoot 60X40 and to the point of aim. The .030 chokes likes big shot and pattern well.


http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac311/dlien40/DSCN0691_zpssxrn4yfu.jpg (http://s911.photobucket.com/user/dlien40/media/DSCN0691_zpssxrn4yfu.jpg.html)

[David Lien]

Side view
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac311/dlien40/DSCN0677_zpspnmscuoq.jpg (http://s911.photobucket.com/user/dlien40/media/DSCN0677_zpspnmscuoq.jpg.html)

[David Lien]

Top view
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac311/dlien40/DSCN0690_zpseddpc3tf.jpg (http://s911.photobucket.com/user/dlien40/media/DSCN0690_zpseddpc3tf.jpg.html)

[David Lien]

Different forend hook ups even different locations on barrel..
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac311/dlien40/DSCN0684_zpscaprhyss.jpg (http://s911.photobucket.com/user/dlien40/media/DSCN0684_zpscaprhyss.jpg.html)

[charlie cleveland]

nice gun i too like those long barrels....charlie

[George M. Purtill]

Well done. The barrels fit well even though its a non-VR gun to a VR barrel.

[Bill Murphy]

David, did you work the curve in the extension rib from a flat surface? If those barrels came to you with the curve, they were retrofitted to a standard solid rib frame at the factory. That is why the fit is so nice. What is the serial number of your vent rib 32" barrels?

[Chad Hefflinger]

I just checked the chokes on mine, 12 gauge was .020 /.019 the 16 gauge was .010 /.008
That is RH /LH and much tighter than I thought they would be.

[David Lien]

Bill Murph.
Bill do you think this rib was installed at the parker factory, "Maybe late" ???
As you can see their are no date codes on the barrel???
I did no work on the top of the dolls head…
Brownells chamber gauge in the barrel indicates 2 7/8" chamber
I shoot only 2 3/4" shells in the gun.

SERIAL NUMBER 32 inch vent rib barrels

http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac311/dlien40/DSCN0694_zpsjo2iaglj.jpg (http://s911.photobucket.com/user/dlien40/media/DSCN0694_zpsjo2iaglj.jpg.html)

[David Lien]

My opinion is that Remington clearly did not make enough Skeet guns…Appears that they made 1,089 over the span of 13 years, this averaged 84 guns a year. The VHE Skeet Guns that I have looked at are all very well made and extremely well balanced. "THEY DID TAKE THE HIGH ROAD" in workmanship and materials and had good advertising... The proof is in the pudding. NOT ENOUGH SKEET GUNS TO GO AROUND TODAY

http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac311/dlien40/DSCN0695_zpsmfi00l6q.jpg (http://s911.photobucket.com/user/dlien40/media/DSCN0695_zpsmfi00l6q.jpg.html)

[Rich Anderson]

I don't think I should have sold the GHE 20 skeet:banghead:

[Dave Suponski]

Nope Rich....You shouldn't have.....

[Dave Noreen]

So, is the one BHE 28-gauge the Robert Stack gun?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Parker/RobertStackBHE2803.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Parker/RobertStackBHE2804.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Parker/RobertStackBHE2801.jpg

The one CHE-Grade .410-bore the General George Patton gun?

[Patrick Lien]

They were not all straight grip, single trigger guns. This one has seen some use but is still one of my favorite guns to shoot.

PML

[Pete Lester]

My opinion is that Remington clearly did not make enough Skeet guns… NOT ENOUGH SKEET GUNS TO GO AROUND TODAY


I suspect they built more than they could sell given the economic conditions during the years of Skeet Gun production. My GHE Skeet sat in inventory for almost two years before being sold according to my research letter.

Rarity is not a bad thing when it comes to Parker's is it? :)

[David Lien]

I suspect they built more than they could sell given the economic conditions during the years of Skeet Gun production. My GHE Skeet sat in inventory for almost two years before being sold according to my research letter.

Rarity is not a bad thing when it comes to Parker's is it? :)



Pete
Very well said, My bet is that Remington lost money on every Skeet gun sold. Especially when you look at the quality that went into the manufacture. They did stay the course right up to the end. My hat is off to them.
Some of us are indeed fortunate, or just lucky.
David

[Rich Anderson]

My skeet guns are usually my go to bird guns.

[Phillip Carr]

Took the Parker out yesterday with the dogs to get them some exercise and to point some planted Bobwhites. Really like how the gun fits and patterns on birds. The single trigger and ejectors operated flawlessly. I think it's a keeper.
The only thing that was surprising was it has that barrel ring that some Parkers experience when fired. I had this on another Parker once. I personally don't like it, but I'm sure I will get used to it. I will do a little experimenting to see if it's the top lever or something else.

[Rich Anderson]

I have never experienced a barrel ring when I shoot any of my Parkers.

[Bill Murphy]

Phil, you can do what I did to isolate the ringing. Wrap the top lever in a few turns of masking tape and fire to test for the ring. I found that the ring was definitely coming from the top lever.

[Randy Davis]

Phil, had one that pinged when fired. Fixed with a thin button shaped piece of rubber under the forend. Might give that a try...

Randy Davis

[Phillip Carr]

Thanks Guys. The sound is definitely odd. I will take it out again next week and try these suggestions I appreciate these ideas.

[todd allen]

I have a 20 ga. DHE that makes a feint, but distinctive chime sound on both bbls when fired. I absolutely love it, and would have paid extra to get it.

[charlie cleveland]

i just figure that noise is from a previos owner of the past just enjoying hisself by getting to get out of the dark...makes sense....charlie

[todd allen]

My gun tallks to me. What's not to love?

[Dean Romig]

Yes it is most definitly a Pistol grip, does it look like factoty work?


Yes, it most definitely looks to be factory work.





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[Arthur Shaffer]

Dean

I saw this thread, noticed it was March 8, and read the whole thing. Didn't notice until I got to the middle of page 10 that the thread was 8 years old. Your comment bumped it up 8 years. May be a record.

I may try checking the entire date next time.