What's Wrong With This Picture

[Paul Ehlers]

Let's have a little fun and play: What's Wrong With This Picture ?

Feel free to take your best guess!

[Rick Losey]

I am looking on my phone. But it looks like one of those few V grades with Damascus barrels

[Dave Noreen]

According to The Parker Story the information from stock books showed VH-Grades with Damascus barrels were 173953 to 173962 all 30- and 32-inch barrel 10-gauges, and 180420 a 34-inch barrel 12-gauge.

So, this gun looks more interesting. According to our home page there is information for a research letter for # 92489.

[Chuck Bishop]

It's an interesting gun Paul. Is there anything different about the top rib or inscription? After you post back, I'll tell you why I asked.

[Paul Ehlers]

Here's a few more pictures showing the other oddities of this one.

[Paul Ehlers]

A few more.

[Dean Romig]

Interesting... It looks like the barrels and forend iron, tip, and latch were intended for a Grade 2.... possibly a transplant by Parker Bros.? We've seen examples before of "use cust. barrels" on guns with barrels that didn't seem just right.







.

[Chuck Bishop]

Is the rib inscription engraved or stamped? Can you shoe the Forend lug?

[Robert Bork]

I know what's wrong, it isn't mine...

[Paul Ehlers]

Like Paul Harvey would say; Here's the rest of the story.

I watched this gun go around on Gunbroker for a couple of sessions and finally my curiosity got the best of me. I contacted the seller and asked for a picture of the serial number on the barrel lug. After viewing the picture. I convinced myself that the barrels were factory stamped & must have been installed in Meriden. I decided to take the chance and did the bidding to win the auction. I was really nervous doing so because the serialization book lists the gun as having Vulcan barrels.

After getting the gun I started turning screws to check all the stampings on the various parts and became even more convinced that the barrels were a factory job. The curious thing though was the grade-2 engraving on the forearm metal.

I sent off for a letter and to my relief it confirmed that sure enough it is all factory work for this VH to be wearing Damascus barrels. Take a look at the letter and you will see that when the gun was almost new it was sent back to have the Vulcan barrels replaced with the Damascus ones she has worn for the last 114 years. I would like to think that the gun was never fired before the original purchaser had the gun sent back to have the barrels replaced.

This validates two things for me.

1. This is proof that at the time there were still questions about the then new fluid steel barrels and at least one man decided to stick to the tried & true Damascus that he was comfortable with.

2. The value of the letters we can get through the PGCA. The money I spent on the letter IMO is as good as gold on this particular gun.

Look the letter over & enjoy!!

[Craig Larter]

Amazing thanks very interesting and thanks for the education.

[greg conomos]

That's pretty cool. I like how it was ordered with full and cylinder chokes.

It's quite possible that someone didn't trust the Vulcan barrels - it's also quite possible the gun was rebarreled in Damascus for 10 other reasons that had nothing to do with the Vulcan steel. I don't have a problem with your theory, but it's not what could be considered 'proof'.

[Dean Romig]

I find it interesting that, while we have always been told that replacement barrels or a second set of barrels had cost half the price of the entire gun, this set of 'soon to be obsolete' barrels, were priced at 80% the price of the complete gun... :shock:






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[Paul Ehlers]

Good observation Dean.

Just curious. What would a grade-2 gun have cost in this time frame? Why would someone have paid this amount to re-barrel a gun rather than buy the upgraded version if cost were similar?

Possibly the original barrels were damaged or lost some how? Could this explain why the forearm was replaced with a Gr-2 replacement? Why would the original forearm not have been used?

All interesting things to ponder !! What are you're thoughts?

[Chuck Bishop]

A GH would cost $80.00. Is the forend VH or GH style checkering? I'll post more tomorrow when I have a regular keyboard to type on.

[Brian Dudley]

It was standard practice when purchasing extra barrels that they came with a new forend as well.

[Chuck Bishop]

The original order was placed by Hartley & Graham, part of a large order of GH's, PH's, and VH's. Just a standard order for lower grade guns. The gun was returned by H.D. Folsom to "fit new pair 12/28 Damascus 3 blade" barrels and "light." It also states "barrels with flat rib" however this is crossed out and there are two words underneath this but I can't interpret the words. It's something like "not on", "not in", may be even "flat on". I just can't make it out and if I can't read it, it doesn't go into the letter. The price was $40.00 less 25% and 2% so they didn't pay retail for the barrels. There was nothing special about the stock book entry.

Usually when the gun is sent in for a second set of barrels, regardless of steel, they stamp a 2 on the forend metal and forend lug. There is no 2 on the forend in the picture, is there a 2 on the forend lug? I'm guessing that the original barrels were not sent along with the gun, therefore Parker didn't mark them as a second set. I'm also guessing that they sent the forend (or just the metal) and had the iron fitted to the new barrels. Why the engraving is for a GH I have no clue. What grade checkering does the forend wood have?

This is all just speculation, nobody to ask, they are all dead.

[greg conomos]

It's quite possible the owner was carrying the gun in 1902 when one of those new-fangled automobiles scared him...he dropped the gun and the auto ran it over and flattened the barrels...

[Paul Ehlers]

There are no stampings on the barrel lug of any kind. Looking at the checkering on the wood it appears to be standard for a VH rather than a GR-2. The only other feature the barrels have is twin Ivory beads. Other than that it appears to be a hybrid VH/GH which was put together in Meriden on customer request.

Here's a couple of rather poor pictures showing the forearm & Barrels flats.

[Bill Holcombe]

As for trustworthiness of fluid steel barrels, the older Col Askins wrote a shotgun book in early 1900s on shotguns. In it is a section on barrel making and design where he not only states that the general public hadn't embraced the safety of fluid steel barrels compared to damascus, but goes to great lengths to convince the reader of the safety of using fluid steel barrels.

[Brian Dudley]

I am very surprised that the forend wood is not checkered like a GH.

I have observed cases where higher grade guns had Vulcan barrels added as extra sets and their forend wood matches the grade of the barrels.

[Paul Ehlers]

I am very surprised that the forend wood is not checkered like a GH.

I have observed cases where higher grade guns had Vulcan barrels added as extra sets and their forend wood matches the grade of the barrels.

Brian; Overall it's a pretty interesting gun being a hybrid of so many different mix & match features.

I just wish someone hadn't butchered the butt stock. I'm trying to decide what I want to do with it. I don't if this one could be repaired & come out looking right or is a re-stock the way to go.

[Dave Noreen]

I am very surprised that the forend wood is not checkered like a GH.

I have observed cases where higher grade guns had Vulcan barrels added as extra sets and their forend wood matches the grade of the barrels.

My 1889 vintage GH-Grade that was fitted with a set of Vulcan Steel barrels in the 1918 to 26 time frame is just the opposite. The number 2 forearm is pure GH-Grade in both checkering and engraving.

[George M. Purtill]

According to The Parker Story the information from stock books showed VH-Grades with Damascus barrels were 173953 to 173962 all 30- and 32-inch barrel 10-gauges, and 180420 a 34-inch barrel 12-gauge.

There are at least 3 VH guns with original Plain Twist barrels. They will be in an upcoming article in PP.

[Gerald McPherson]

Looks like the price of damascus had increased at this time.

[Dean Romig]

I think striking a set of 'in stock' Damascus barrels to "make light" had a lot to do with the high price of the replacement barrels. A new GH was $80 but this set of replacement barrels was $80 when they should have been $40 tops.
Damascus barrels didn't command a premium in 1902. In fact, they were beginning to be phased out by the various fluid steels being offered by Parker Bros.....

There's something we're not seeing here... or maybe this 'something' wasn't recorded in the books... maybe it has something to do with the illegible entries...






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[Paul Harm]

Paul, send Bachelder a picture of the stock. I've seen guns where he made that poor work done on the flats disappear. He'll mill both sides and inlay new wood - it's almost impossible to see what he did.