New Member/Inherited Early 10ga.

[Jeffrey H. Smith]

Though I'm a new member, I've recently been taking the time to learn as much about my Parker as I can. This gun I inherited from my father 3 yrs. ago, it's been sitting in the back of my gun safe waiting for me to have the time to research it thoroughly. I just retired this past November, now that time has come.

How my family came about this Parker is as follows: My Grandmother was an independent antique dealer working out of her home in upstate New York. My father had always told her if she came across any old guns in her travels to call him and describe what she'd found. Well sometime in the late 60's or early 70's she called and explained an old rusty double barrel Shotgun with the words "Parker Brothers " engraved on the side. My Dad immediately told her buy that gun. I don't know what she paid but I don't think very much, like probably no more than $100 bucks. Turns out that's likely what this gun sold for in 1874!!

So my Dad cleaned it up, tuned up the wood with hand-rubbed LinSpeed oil and put it over the mantle of our fireplace for near forty years. Damascus barrels so he never believed he could safely shoot it.

[]Here are the specifics: 10 ga. Lifter (2.5" chambers) likely early Grade D or 3 or $100 grade. Gun Dog engravings, sculptured barrel bolsters, skeleton butt plate. The sidelocks are in great shape, can see some wear on hammer faces due to shooting at some time, the right hammer being worn more due to right-handed shooter? Left side considerably less so whoever it was, was likely a good shot. There are two barrel sets with this gun, the original seemingly cut down to 23". The second barrel is 30".

Everything bears the same serial number, even the extra barrel & forearm, that SR# being 4084. So I think the gun was manufactured in 1874 according to the references on this site.

There may be more talking points to this gun, but for now let's get some pictures uploaded for you to see......

Please feel free to post comments and questions, share any knowledge or familiarity you might have of guns of this grade and vintage. I have more pics, watertables, forearms, barrel ends, ribs etc... and can post more at your request. I'm just really excited about this gun and really would like to take it out with the 23" barrels for grouse and that 30" barrel to smoke a Spring Gobbler with this Spring! (If it is deemed shoot-able by DelGrego's here in Ilion, NY and if I can find ammo for it. I plan to take a run to Ilion and have the DelGrego's evaluate it in the near future. Ilion is only a touch over 100 miles from my home.)

Thank you in advance for any help that can be provided.

Regards,
Jeffrey Smith

[Dean Romig]

A very nice grade 3. You should order a research letter on it.






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[Chuck Bishop]

Very nice D grade gun with a ball grip. Has anybody seen this engraving pattern before?

[Brian Dudley]

Very nice graded lifter! And it looks to be in very good condition too.

The oddly short length of the one barrel set suggests cutting. I woild not think a 10g to be ordered in 23" length. But, it could be. The 30" set with additional forend could likely have been added by the factory. Either at original manufscture or later on. If you can get a letter for the gun, you should, it would likely have a lot of interesting info in it.

Before you go trecking to DelGregos with it, you may want to at least check with them on it first as i do not believe that they work on any Damascus barreled guns.

Are you in NY? what area?

[Dean Romig]

Chuck, I have not. The shape of the game scene vignette reminds me of a late Ithaca hammerless.






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[Chuck Bishop]

Unfortunately there is no order book for this gun, only the stock book and the information is limited to the basic build specs and targeting info.

[edgarspencer]

I love those hammers.

[Robin Lewis]

One word of caution about the gun. The early guns Parker made have a sharp 90 degree corner where the breach meets the frame and that was a serious design flaw. It didn't take them long to change the sharp corner into a small radius to stop the possibility of the frame cracking at the sharp corner. Your gun has a sharp corner.

I have similar Parker's and shoot them but I take care not to put to much of a load on them; I hunt with them but I don't shoot clays with them; just to keep the odds low that the metal might fail. I strongly recommend you use low pressure loads, I shoot RST shells in mine and have yet to have a problem.

[Dean Romig]

I love those hammers.


Yes, me too! Especially the right one - it is exactly the style I'm current looking for.





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[Jeffrey H. Smith]

Thank you all that have replied so far. I'll respond to your inquiries and work on getting more pics uploaded.

-I live in Virgil, NY about 10 miles South of Cortland

-I think the dog engravings are superior in anatomical accuracy to others I've seen. Some almost look "cartoonish" to me. This gun the dogs have proper posture, body conformation, head size proportion, expression and accurate settings. The Setter is very nice especially the black patch over the eye, signature marking and reminiscent of the dog I grew up with and hunted pheasant over as a kid with my Dad. The Golden retriever scene on bottom of trigger guard is one of the best scenes I've seen, looks almost like a
pintail in the dog's mouth, the marsh scene ,with the ducks overhead is very nice.

-I would be interested to see more engravings from this vintage and era that might be the same engraver if anyone might have something.

- As for DelGrego's I plan to call before going up. I thought maybe they could help me sort out and evaluate the gun and barrels for shoot ability at least. There is also some hairline cracks in the stock for them to look at. I can post pics of those eventually.

-I'm confused on the research letter, this website indicated there were factory records surviving on my gun, yet the Research Chairman posted that there was no order book information. So.... will it be worth requesting the research letter still?? I'm a little confused here.

- As for the ammo, my gun chamber measures 2 1/2" and the only ammo on theRST site is 2 7/8" length and $13/box. Can this be used in my gun? Otherwise, I did find 2 1/2" ammo on Buffalo Ammo Co. except these are $33/box. That's almost 3x's as much as the RST ammo. Any advise here??

Again, thank you for your posts and comments, I look forward to more dialogue with more pictures.

What a great forum of friendly knowledgeable people with a common interest willing to help . Thanks Again.

Jeffrey Smith

[Rick Losey]

Virgil - love the old school with the separate boys and girls entrances

great gun-

double check the chambers - for my British 2 5/8 inch 10- I cut down modern 10 gauge - and load on a mec 600 jr with a modified short kit - and roll crimp
you can still do that if its 2 1/2

i use load data from Peter's spread sheet - found here
http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11403

many had a nitro card to take up room, leaving that out allows it to crimp fine

if you want to roll your own- we can help you - really makes the short ten fun to use when the cost is reasonable

[Henry Verri]

Take a good look at the RST web site and their 10 gauge shells... you only get ten shells to a box.

[edgarspencer]

Yes, me too! Especially the right one - it is exactly the style I'm current looking for..

Really? With The groove around the edge?

[Chuck Bishop]

Jeff, I can't fully answer your question right now. I suggest reading the FAQ's by going to the home page and clicking on the FAQ link on the left, #34,54,55,56, it should answer your question.

[Jay Oliver]

Someone on the forum may shoot the RST 2 7/8” in short chambers without any issues. Seems like at one time someone had told me(when I asked a similar question) that RST was coming out with 2 5/8” 10 Gauge shells at some point. You may want to call them. I have been very happy with the 2 7/8” 10 gauge shells(I try not to pay attention to the price) and variety of different 12 gauge shells from RST.

It may just be my opinion, but the Black Powder loads that Buffalo Arms sell seem a bit stout at 3.5 Drams and 1 1/4 oz. their 2 5/8’ shells were at 3 ¾ drams and 1/4oz.. I know the gun was built to take that, but for target shooting I think you could lighten up. I am just getting into loading black powder shells and for 10 Gauge I loaded up shells with 3 Drams and 1 1/8 oz. of shot(I haven’t had a chance to shoot these yet). You may want to look at loading 10 Gauge Brass shells, which you can do with hand tools and without a press. Midway USA has a few good videos on YouTube doing this that are worth watching.

That’s a beautiful gun you have and you’ll be able to shoot it soon.

Jay

[Jeffrey H. Smith]

I have attached a few more pictures of the SR# 4084, D-Grade, 10ga that I recently inherited.

-You'll see close up of barrel bolsters and hammers

- Also the underside of the breech showing the 4th dog engraving that appears to be a hound breed I think.

-The watertables are labeled for the 23" and 30" barrels. The 23" is stamped 5.6 and the 30" is stamped 414

-There are also some other markings on barrel hinge of the 23" while lacking on the 30".

- Last pic is nside profile of barrels, the 30" has: F.9.R stamped above the SR# and is lacking on the 23"

[Dean Romig]

Really? With The groove around the edge?


No groove. I poster a picture of the left hammer in the "Members Only - Want to Buy" page.






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[Brian Dudley]

Jeff,
If you feel like a drive to Rochester, i would love to see the gun with you and meet you. Open invitation.

[edgarspencer]

I love those hammers.

Yes, me too! Especially the right one - it is exactly the style I'm current looking for.

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Really? With The groove around the edge?

No groove. I poster a picture of the left hammer in the "Members Only - Want to Buy" page.

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So, You're looking for one exactly like these, but with no groove? I see...........

[Dean Romig]

Yup...






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[Jeffrey H. Smith]

Thank you Brian for the offer to meet and evaluate my gun. I do think it may need some stock work. And can case colors be "recovered" or replicated without compromising the gun integrity and value?

I see you phone and email on your site and can further contact you fairly soon to meet.

Regards,

J.Smith

[Jeffrey H. Smith]

I've attached a few more pics comparing the two barrel sets and forearms. There are some subtle differences in the engraving of the two forearms. This suggests a follow-up purchased of the second barrel which I suspect was the 30"

I am curious what size barrels were offered with these guns, especially lengths over 30". Does it look possible that this 30" was cut as well since the barrels don't "kiss" each other at the muzzle? And, oddly the barrels of the 23" DO "kiss" which was how I thought you determined barrel cuts.

And the barrel wall of the 23" is much thinner (and dented slightly) suggesting these were bored out (Open).

I also noticed the forearm of the thirty inch is slightly longer in length. You also can see the bead of the 23" very close to muzzle end.

Interesting to speculate what may have gone on here but seems the gun likely went back to Parker at some point. Sure would be nice if there were records and I read where a gun that was returned for work might be more likely to have a paper trail.

From what the Research Chairman posted, It doesn't sound like I'll get much?........ or should I order a Research letter anyway??

[edgarspencer]

Ok. I have one.

[greg conomos]

It's a nice looking gun, as others have noted.

No, you cannot improve the case colors without compromising the gun's value.

My opinion, from the pics, is the butt stock has seen some repair/resanding/refinishing. It's too clean and smooth and dent free as compared to the forend wood (which looks original). It also looks like there could be some wood filler behind the right side lockplate.

It's also probably just a plain case of someone having a second set of barrels added (or the gun was bought new with two sets). Since one set is 23", it's likely the 30" tubes were bought to remedy the cutting of the tubes that became 23".

[Dean H Hanson]

I strongly suggest the research letter. I was pleasantly surprised with the info it detailed about my fathers gun. Sometimes you get more clues than answers. Keep searching.